Asa Firestone
We started in December first twenty fourteen with this adventure lodging concept, and we didn’t go out and get investment money. We stayed as a privately owned family business. And there are moments where I wonder if that was the right move or not.
Sebastien Leitner
My name is Sebastien Leitner. Welcome to the podcast, The Turndown. I recently sat down with Asa Firestone. He is a rock climber who lives in Boulder, Colorado. Boulder is a place where you fly to or travel to when you want to see parks, natural beauty, fantastic mountains. It’s in the middle of Colorado, but it’s sort of a stepping stone into the great, wild, American Rocky Mountains.
Asa runs two properties, a beer garden, a camper van business. He’s a really great character with a business background that has discovered hospitality via detours, and is creating a community catering to rock climbers and nomads, digital nomads, people who are finding beauty in nature.
Asa, welcome to the podcast. It’s a pleasure having you on board. Thank you so much for joining. And I wanna get right into the most important question, which is, as a CEO and co founder of A Lodge, what is keeping you up at night these days?
Asa Firestone
Well, other than my eight week old baby, there’s a lot. Congratulations. Yeah. Thank you. There’s a lot that keeps me up at night. We are a small business, under resourced. We’ve been bootstrapping for a long time. We never got big investment money. So it’s really a family owned business. There’s things from maintenance, which is probably the biggest thing that keeps me up at night, to this kind of internal drive to try to grow and to try to be better and always be striving to become more of the ideal vision of what I set out to accomplish. That drive is always keeping me up at night.
Then another aspect that keeps me up at night is that I started a camper van business because we’re in adventure lodging. And so I thought, okay, what’s more adventure lodging than camper vans? It’s like a hotel on wheels that can go out on adventures in the backcountry. And that’s a very different business than hotels. It’s really more similar to a rental car business. So that’s kept me up at night because I’ve had to relearn a whole new business. And then in addition, at our second location, we’ve got a beer garden and food truck park that I started as part of the property. And that’s another business that I’ve had to learn as well.
Sebastien Leitner
That sounds so interesting. Let’s get to maybe a few minutes spent on describing your property. You have two properties, if I’m not mistaken, and they’re branded A Lodge. Is that correct? Help our listeners understand what is so different or unique about your properties.
Asa Firestone
Absolutely. So I’m gonna actually go back to the beginning here. I’m a rock climber. That’s my passion. What I love to do in my spare time. When I was twenty five, I got a grant with National Geographic, a young explorers grant. We went to the Venezuelan Amazon, took a two week backcountry bongo boat journey into the deepest part of the Orinoco basin. We actually went into a military zone, and it’s a whole other thing.
Sebastien Leitner
That’s a podcast on its own.
Asa Firestone
Yes. We went out there to try to climb this mountain called Autana, and after a two week boat journey and then a couple days trekking through the jungle, we didn’t even get to the base of it. So it was a total crazy adventure. We did do some climbing, but it wasn’t what I’d set out to do. And then I’ve climbed El Capitan a number of times in Yosemite. So I’m a big climber.
In twenty fourteen, I set out to create the climbers hostel for Boulder, Colorado. Boulder is a place that has amazing adventure, amazing rock climbing, and yet even back then in twenty fourteen, it was very expensive to try to stay in Boulder. There wasn’t a proper campground. The hostel was shut down a year before, turned into student housing. So there was a need to create a space for adventure enthusiasts to be able to stay in Boulder and experience it.
So we found this property, a very tired old beat up motel, but it had a perfect location and the perfect property. We bought that in December of twenty fourteen. It was called the Boulder Mountain Lodge. Since then, we’ve renovated the lobby, renovated all the rooms, rebranded it. We created the adventure lodge brand or A Lodge for short. We converted a couple suites into a hostel. We redid the campground there because we’re the only permitted camping in all of Boulder. We built out some van life sites, built a bar and got a liquor license, built a slackline park, connected a trail to the local hiking above our property.
So it’s kind of like a never ending labor of love on that property, because there’s just so much potential. Even now, eight years in, there’s still so much more to do. But when I go up there and I look around, it does really feel satisfying to think about where we started and where we’ve gotten to.
Sebastien Leitner
You mentioned something that spurred my interest. You said bootstrapped at some point. So here you are, eight years ago, you start with no foreign investment. How do you keep going? How do you motivate yourself? You must have seen a lot of things in these eight years.
Asa Firestone
Absolutely. That’s the biggest question that I continue to ask myself. I look at some other brands that are in the same market as us, the Lodge Camps or Gravity House, AutoCamp. These are different animals than A Lodge, but all of those brands started out by bootstrapping maybe for a year or so to prove their model. Then they went out and got serious investment so that they could grow quickly.
We started in December first twenty fourteen with this adventure lodging concept, and we didn’t go out and get investment money. We stayed as a privately owned family business. And there are moments where I wonder if that was the right move or not. Because real estate takes a lot of money, takes a lot of resources, takes a great team. And when you are bootstrapping, it makes all that a lot harder. The advantage is that you don’t have a boss, which is awesome.
I look at it kind of like climbing a big wall or a climbing expedition, where you’ve got to enjoy some of that type two fun, where you’ve got to enjoy the pain of climbing the mountain and the journey. Because otherwise, eight years of your life, if you don’t enjoy some of the challenge rather than just the success, then it’s not gonna be worth it.
One of the things that we’ve done that has made that more feasible is that because of our adventure brand, because of our rock climbing culture, we’ve actually been able to bring in a lot of staff members who are climbers, who feel like they’re part of a climbing tribe. I’ve got amazing employees who’ve been with us for years and years. They live in a van on our property. So they don’t have to pay Boulder rent, and they can afford to live in Boulder and afford to have a job at a hotel. And when they say, hey, I’m going to Yosemite for a week to go climbing, we say, yeah, we get it. We’re climbers. Go to Yosemite, just give us a heads up so we can cover your shifts. But we want you to live your best life as long as it’s reasonable.
So they understand that we’re climbers, that we understand they’re climbers. It creates a culture that is supportive. We’ve walked the talk and that means that our retention of really amazing people is incredible. It’s made it easier to bootstrap because we have awesome people who live on-site that believe in the culture, they believe in us, they believe in the property, and they believe in the mission of A Lodge.
Sebastien Leitner
What’s also so interesting, oftentimes in hospitality, the staff servicing guests are not part of the same community. It sounds like your staff is made out of your target audience. Right? They could sort of cater to your own guests.
Asa Firestone
Yeah, absolutely. Now the only thing I would say is that being in Boulder and being part of the Boulder lodging market, we definitely get a lot of climbers, hikers, mountain bikers. We get outdoor industry groups who stay with us. We’ve had North Face, Patagonia, Arc’teryx. We have Uphill Athletes, which is owned by Steve House, who is one of the greatest American alpinists to ever live, who’s staying with us right now doing a retreat.
But we also get all sorts of different types of guests. We get some corporate guests that have nothing to do with the outdoor industry. We get a ton of families. We get a lot of University of Colorado student parents from New York and Texas and California. But our branding, it all speaks to this outdoor culture. And so even if you’re not our target demographic of being a rock climber, you’re a parent who lives in LA, but you know what you’re getting into. You know that this is an adventure branded place, it’s more laid back, more casual.
And then when you meet people who are working there that are also climbers, it fits. People appreciate the fact that we have a strong culture and a strong brand. And if you are a climber and you’re staying with us, you just fit right in. You can talk to our staff members about where to go climbing. I like to think of all of our front desk staff members as adventure concierges. So you can talk to anybody who works there, and they will be able to give you great beta or information about where to go climbing, where to go hiking, where to get gear. And all the stuff that is not on social media or the Internet easily accessible.
Sebastien Leitner
I want to get back to something you said earlier. You started in twenty fourteen with a property in Boulder, and then you’ve added complexity to your business. There’s an additional property in Lyons, a beer garden, camper vans, a bar. Is there anything you would have not done? Let’s start there.
Asa Firestone
That’s a great question. We started both of those businesses, the camper van rental business and the Lyons property, in twenty nineteen. Right before the pandemic. And if I had hindsight with the pandemic and with everything else, I don’t know if I would have done either of those businesses. That’s not to say that neither of them have been successful, but they’ve been really taxing on me personally.
As I learn more about business and get more experience, I realize that it’s not all about just growing as fast as you can. Because my time and resources are finite. If I spend all my time working on something that’s not the right option, then I’m not working on the other option that could have gotten us further down the road.
The camper van business is super cool. We got into it at the right time. That being said, we were not resourced enough to do it as well as I wanted to. At this point, we’ve taken a big step back on our camper van rentals. We’ve sold a number of our vans. We had eight vans at our peak. We sold most of our vans. We’re planning to keep one van, and we’re going to take the next year not doing rentals to the public. We’re going to use it for marketing events, giveaways, bring it to different adventure outdoor industry events to market for A Lodge.
What I’ve realized is that with our resources being finite, I need to focus on what’s our core value proposition. What is it that we do well that makes our business work? And that is adventure lodging. Camper vans are that, but it’s a bit of an offshoot. We need to focus being small. And then with Lyons, it’s an awesome town. I actually live in Lyons. It’s in between Boulder and Estes Park where Rocky Mountain National Park is. But it’s very small and very seasonal. So that project has been a little difficult as well.
Sebastien Leitner
What lets you sleep easily? Sort of the reverse question. What gives you comfort? What relaxes you?
Asa Firestone
That’s a really good question. I think having amazing staff. Working with a good accountant so that I have a model for my finances going out a year or two so I can really feel like, okay, this is where our cash flow is. Because being an entrepreneur, being a small business, the worry is that you run out of cash. And then where are you at? Then you’re in a bad place. That’s dark.
So really being confident in our model and our forecasts, because being a small seasonal business, there have been times where I’ve looked at our numbers and said, we are going to run out of money at this point in the middle of January when we’re slow. But if you know that, and you know that you’re going to have a great summer, you can work with that. You can work with the bank to get a line of credit, whatever it might be. If you have time and you know what’s coming, you can solve it. So that’s what helps me sleep at night is knowing I’ve got an amazing team that I can rely on, and being confident in our numbers so that I don’t have financial surprises.
Sebastien Leitner
I want to do a quick lightning round. I will throw you a word and just share what comes to mind. Departures.
Asa Firestone
Housekeeping.
Sebastien Leitner
Luggage.
Asa Firestone
Backpack. Yeah. We’ll go with backpack on that one.
Sebastien Leitner
Direct versus OTA.
Asa Firestone
Profit margin.
Sebastien Leitner
Distraction.
Asa Firestone
My life.
Sebastien Leitner
Digital marketing.
Asa Firestone
Headaches.
Sebastien Leitner
Travel in twenty thirty.
Asa Firestone
Opportunity.
Sebastien Leitner
Social media.
Asa Firestone
Opportunity and time suck.
Sebastien Leitner
Bleisure.
Asa Firestone
Digital nomads.
Sebastien Leitner
Housekeeping.
Asa Firestone
Housekeeping was the hardest part of the beginning of our business. And once we really solved it, it’s become so good and amazing. So maybe a problem to solve, a crucial problem to solve, but one we’ve solved.
Sebastien Leitner
Why was it a problem? What was the issue?
Asa Firestone
Our location in Boulder is a little bit up the canyon. You need a car to get there. So we had a really hard time finding reliable staff for housekeeping. Eventually, we found the right staff members and we compensated them well. They’ve been with us for a very long time, and it’s really worked out well. But there was a long period where a housekeeper would call out and it’s snowing, and then you don’t have somebody there. What are you going to do? I have to go and clean rooms. I’ve got a billion other things I was planning to do, but there’s no other choice. We have guests coming, and we are certainly not going to not have a clean room. When you find the right team, it makes everything so much better.
Sebastien Leitner
I want to talk a little bit about the pandemic. Less about the impact, more what you personally learned from it. What were some of the realizations or learnings that you’ve taken that you still apply today?
Asa Firestone
I think what I’ve learned from the pandemic is humility. I started this business when I was thirty two years old, and I had success in the beginning. It was hard, but I felt like, oh, I can do this. In ten years, we’re gonna be this big thing, and it’s not that hard. I felt like success was guaranteed. And that’s ridiculous. That’s partly because I was young, but it also is partly because I hadn’t gone through some of those hard times to learn how grateful I need to be, how appreciative I need to be for the success that we’ve had, and how hard it really is to keep that success and maintain it.
The pandemic really made that obvious. All of a sudden, you don’t have the bookings. You don’t have the revenue. You’ve got to deal with PPP funds, staff that don’t necessarily want to work. And at that point, I had just expanded to vans and our second property in Lyons. It was really difficult to figure out how to make it through all of this, being a small business without deep pockets.
It really taught me humility and the value of investments. When you spend money on things, you better know that they’re the right things because that money doesn’t come back. If you spend money on the wrong things because you were moving too quickly or you didn’t analyze it well enough, that could have dire consequences in the future. Now I’ve realized that you can move fast, and in the right situations, that’s the most important thing. But you’ve got to make the right decisions. And if it takes a year longer to make that right decision, hold your money, invest it properly, that is so much smarter in the long run.
Sebastien Leitner
I think you coined a term about the great American road trip being back following the pandemic. As we’re approaching the summer of twenty three, are we looking at a normal summer from your point of view?
Asa Firestone
I think things are coming back to more normal than they have been the last couple years. I believe we’re going to have our best summer ever, personally. Our summer last year was great, and I think this summer is still going to be great. I think our revenues will be slightly higher than last summer. ADR is going up with inflation, occupancy has been going up but not quite to twenty nineteen levels in the Boulder market, but they’re really close. But ADR is so much higher that RevPAR and overall gross revenues are gonna be higher than even twenty nineteen.
In terms of the road trip, the last couple of years have been great. People have been traveling by car, not going international, driving from the Midwest to Colorado. I think that is slowing down. People are tightening up their pocketbooks a little bit. But when they do that, they still wanna get out. They still wanna enjoy themselves. And the cheapest way to do that is still the road trip. So I think there is still going to be a heavy interest in the American road trip.
Sebastien Leitner
Before we wrap up, if there’s one piece of advice you’d give someone starting out in this industry now, what would that be?
Asa Firestone
Well, one is to have a well defined plan. If you are going to bootstrap, know what that is and have a vision for where that will take you versus if you are going to get big investment, know what that path looks like, understand your goal, and define your exit strategy. For me, I’m more of a doer. I have an idea, I’m just gonna jump into it and figure it out as I’m going. Which has some advantages, but it can create a lot of problems and get you into a bind.
The other thing I would advise is the youth today have a huge advantage with marketing. They understand where the future of marketing is going and how to use it. The last thing I want to do is pick up my phone, talk to the camera every day. But if you grew up doing that and felt comfortable, maybe that’s an amazing way to create thousands of followers and get free publicity without having to spend a dime. Embracing the new marketing culture and tools as a youth is a big advantage that even somebody like me at forty years old doesn’t necessarily have.
Sebastien Leitner
Asa, is there a topic or a question that I haven’t asked you that you’re passionate about?
Asa Firestone
My big question today is where is the vision of where I’m going? Do I want to run two properties and become an old man doing that, which has advantages like a good lifestyle, less stress, more time for rock climbing and my new son and family? Or do I want to create a plan to grow and take bigger investment money, get more corporate? Can I do that in a way that doesn’t lose the soul of the business?
Those are the kind of questions I’m asking myself now. Where do I want this business to be in ten years and twenty years? A lot of people who start a business, their sole focus is to start it, sell it, and make money. For me, all I can see in the future is continuing to run this business with this brand.
Sebastien Leitner
And you seem to be enjoying it every day. The way you talk about it, the way you describe it. You seem to love it.
Asa Firestone
I absolutely love hospitality. I love the brand that we’ve created. I love our staff members and our team. I don’t love some of the handcuffs that it puts on me. If I could keep all of those things I love about the business, but go rock climbing more and spend more time with my family, that would be the perfect lifestyle.
And I do really want to grow. Being a human, you need growth, fun, and meaning in your job. Humans need to grow. If you’re stagnant, you’re kind of dying. Fun, there’s definitely fun in this. And meaning, for me, the big aspect is providing easier access to the outdoors for our customers and guests. That’s a mission of mine. I just know how much the outdoors and adventure has done for me, and I wanna give that to our guests. The growth one is the big question mark. Hopefully, I’ll have an answer for you next time we talk.
Sebastien Leitner
I look forward to speaking to you in due course. I wanna wrap up with the final question. What’s your favorite travel destination in the world?
Asa Firestone
I’ve got to say Brazil. Brazil has a combination of, in my opinion, the most amazing culture. The people are the warmest that I’ve seen in the world. The music and the people and the food and the beaches. But it’s such a huge country. There’s so many places to explore. It’s so wild and diverse with their people, their culture, and the environment. You have the Amazon, you’ve got Rio.
The fact that you can do a ten pitch rock climb in Rio de Janeiro in the middle of the city, top out, get a beer, and take the cable car down. Where else in the world can you do that? It’s unbelievable. So I would have to say Brazil. If you haven’t been to Brazil, it is a wild country, but it is so worth it and so rewarding and beautiful. I haven’t been there in a long time, and I really miss it.
Sebastien Leitner
Well, let’s make a point to have a beer on the top of that mountain in Rio. Asa, thank you so much for coming on the program, sharing your insights, your thoughts, your experiences. Really love having you here.
Asa Firestone
Well, thank you, and I look forward to doing this again. Thanks again.
Sebastien Leitner
Thank you for listening to The Turndown. Don’t forget to subscribe and tune in next week as we discover new exciting guests.
