Jennifer Barnwell: Empowering independent hotels in a brand-centric market

Jennifer Barnwell

That’s really what Curator was meant to be, a public collection that any independent boutique hotel can be a part of to harness the power of scale that they can’t do on their own. So the idea was a safe place for independent boutiques to come in to get some cost savings, be more profitable, perhaps then stay independent.

Sebastien Leitner

Welcome to the Turndown. This week, I have the pleasure of sitting down with Jennifer Barnwell. She’s the president at Currito Hotels and Resort Collection. Jen, discusses with me her concerns about the consolidation of hotel brands in the hospitality industry. Where big brands are buying independent boutique hotels, she believes that these independent hotels lose their shine and uniqueness when they become part of a big brand. So let’s dive into that. I can’t wait for you to discover Jen, her expertise, her experience, and her insights around this topic.

Jen, welcome to the program. Welcome to the turndon. It’s a pleasure to have you here today.

Jennifer Barnwell

Thank you, Sebastian. It is my pleasure. I had so much fun with you in New Orleans, so I was happy to talk even longer with you this time around.

Sebastien Leitner

You remember that. We were sitting on a stage. I think we were the closing sessions. What did we talk about? Do you remember that?

Jennifer Barnwell

Well, we were a little bit of the wrap up. You had a really fun, kind of set of three segments right at right ahead of me. And it was a little bit of, you know, different parts of the tech stack kinda like duking it out against each other on stage in a very playful, fun and respectable way, which was very enjoyable. And then I got to do a little wrap up with you from the independent hotelier standpoint. And then, on the other side was someone from Wyndham who got, you know, a little bit into the more bigger brand perspective. So I think it made for a really good, you know, quick conversation wrap up about, you know, I guess, the two different sides of our industry.

Sebastien Leitner

Yeah. I remember now. We were the session was called the reality check, and you were there to basically demystify a lot of statements by technology providers and potentially argue that in reality, maybe things look a little bit different. Let’s get to that. I wanna talk about technology. I wanna talk about hospitality. But before we get started, true to, I guess, the definition of this podcast in this program, I’m very curious what is keeping you up at night these days.

Jennifer Barnwell

Well, I will say something that’s work related and kind of absolutely true that, you know, a pretty big concern of mine and kind of in my wheelhouse, and it does keep me up at night. You know, I’m one of those people that it’s at night, like, you know, million things running through my head at night every night, but it’s really, all this consolidation of brands in the market.

You know, it seems like we’ve been hit with a lot of headlines very, very recently. It’s just the big brands buying independence. And they could be as small as, you know, Nomad has one hotel, I think. Right? Okay. So alright. That’s interesting. You’re gonna buy a brand of one and then, of course, develop and distribute it more. But everything, you know, from graduate, you know, a big brand’s doing deals with small luxury hotels, graduate dream.

You know, I know there’s perhaps many sides to it. It feels disappointing to me because I just you know, for many years now, lived in the independent boutique space and just love it so much and think it’s so special. And I can understand the financial considerations, you know, of taking a buyout. Sure. But on the other side of it, I just it’s just like, how big do the brands need to be, continuing to scoop up, you know, these independent brands and concepts.

I understand why because so many travelers are into that now, something unique and interesting, boutique lifestyle, independent, you know, whatever you wanna call it. But to the layperson, it’s like, you know, I ask my husband, you know, I’ll throw some brands up. I can’t even keep track anymore. How many brands does Marriott have and Hilton have? He has no idea what all these brands are, who they’re a part of, and it just kind of feels like and then this is just one person’s perspective that, you know, they lose for me, they lose their shine. They lose interest. I think they end up being kind of a shell perhaps of what they used to be before they were part of the big brand.

So that’s always kind of front and center and top of mind for me, especially with, you know, the whole flurry of announcements we’ve seen in the press the last couple weeks.

Sebastien Leitner

And it would like to continue is, like, as your expectation. Right? I mean, are there any less? Don’t we?

Jennifer Barnwell

Yeah. I mean, I think something like graduate was kind of not a big surprise. I think, I’ve been following them for a while. It’s been so interesting and so cool and unique, you know, these secondary markets and, how high design they are. And I know that some of the designers and artists they use, I mean, that’s been so interesting, but maybe that was their plan from the very beginning to have an exit.

But some of the other brands, it just kind of seems unfortunate to just now be part of this big machine. And, you know, we saw it with many years ago when IHG bought Kimpton. I mean, when I started my career with a publicly traded hotel and was an asset manager, it was my first introduction to Kimpton, and, man, they were just so fun and so special. And, no one really liked them, especially all the team members they had.

And then we went through the whole because we owned a bunch of Kimptons when IHG actually bought them, and we went through that whole process of both on the Kimpton side and the IHG side trying to convince us that don’t worry. You know, they’ll kinda operate separately, and they’ll remain, you know, how special they are. But then also trying to, you know, convince us to be in ISG loyalty program and, like, you know, somehow accept all these, you know, different increases in fees and expenses and all these things, and there’s gonna be all this big proliferation at the top line, you know, which frankly we didn’t really see. And so many of the great tinted people left. I mean, they’re just not there anymore.

So I’m a little bit scarred by that experience for sure, which informs how I feel today every time I see a headline about a small, you know, historically independent boutique brand getting bought by the big guys. You’re gonna understand why they do it. You know? It is what it is. It’s, you know, you listen to these quarter end calls. Everything, turns on their growth statistics, and doesn’t matter how you get there, if you’re building or if you’re buying.

But I live and breathe the independent boutique space now, so, I want everyone to stay independent that wants to stay independent, I guess I would say. And, you know, maybe it opens up an opportunity, but the real estate doesn’t go away. So if, you know, yesterday down the street, it was a dream hotel. Well, now that’s owned by Hai. It didn’t go away. It’s just like, okay. Well, then how are these, maybe new? Maybe it’s an opportunity for innovation and creation, for new independent, offerings and brands. But you gotta find the spot to put them. Right?

Sebastien Leitner

Yeah. So so the real estate didn’t disappear. Just somebody else owns it now. It’s still there in the supply chain.

Jennifer Barnwell

So You have so many interesting comments. And as as you were talking, I was thinking about my own trips that I’ve taken. I I traveled unfortunately too much. I think I have, like, two to two to three trips a month, if you will. And much too often, I, I wouldn’t say disappointed, but I I’m in a hotel room that reminds me of the previous hotel room, and it doesn’t excite me anymore. Or I’m staying in a hotel that is comfort zone, but there’s no excitement. There’s no surprise. There is. You know? And, you know, often enough, this hotel is, close to a country center or a convention or an airport, if you will. So, I I’m not saying that there’s always the ideal destination for a for a independent hotel, but, you know, hotels, at least in my youth, were something that were exciting, were different, were places that we we sought out. A lot of that has changed a little bit, at least in my opinion.

Sebastien Leitner

Right. They’ll send us my personal opinion as two people talk. I wanna understand, Jen, how you got started in the industry. How did Jen become Jen?

Jennifer Barnwell

Oh, good question. So, I mean, it really goes back It goes back to college, actually. So, I feel like even today I I mean, I don’t know how anybody knows what they wanna do when they’re a teenager. So and if you do, it’s just like, that is amazing. I’m pretty impressed by that. But I had two older siblings. Believe it or not, they both went to Cornell. And when it was time for me to go, you know, I was pretty decent volleyball player at the time and had that experience of knowing where my siblings were. So by very good fortune, I ended up at Cornell too.

And my sister was in the hotel school. She’s like, oh, this is amazing. You should do this. So it all kinda came together. I ended up in the hotel school at Cornell and, loved it, because it was you know, I came from a small town in upstate New York, and the joke was it was, like, Statler High School. Like, that was the name of the building where all the hotel school classes were. And it was kinda like a little school within a school. Lots of camaraderie, lots of fun. I definitely gravitated to more of the kind of accounting finance, aspects of it, but I got such great exposure to everything within the industry. You know, We had to run a restaurant. We had a food lab. We had marketing, you know, even public speaking, you know, all this stuff.

So out of Cornell, I mean, the recruiting out of Cornell is just fantastic. Again, it’s such, you know, good fortune that I had. I had done some inner summer internships, so I’d worked in hotels and kinda knew that wasn’t really, where I wanted to be. It was really more analytical focused, and just kinda wanted to be in an office, I guess. So the recruiting was fantastic for me. I went to an ownership group in New York City, did a lot. They were very vertically integrated, so I worked on they were an owner and developer of big convention center hotels. So I got to do some asset management. They manage some assets too. They were develop they were building a hotel in Puerto Rico at that point that I got to go participate on. And I worked in we kind of called it our investment banking group, but it was really just brokerage. So I got to work on helping owners buy and sell their hotels, helping them place debt on their hotels as an advisor. So I got to see a lot of things, and also, honestly, just work incredibly hard.

It wasn’t as hard as what I understood it was in the investment banks, but it was pretty grueling. I mean, it was, like, twelve hour days every day working not every weekend, but every other weekend and making almost barely enough to survive in New York City, like sleeping in the living room of my sister’s apartment. So, I would say I worked worked really hard in school. I was lucky enough to have a position right out of school and, you know, just really kinda grind it out.

And landing in an ownership company was really great for me. That’s kind of what has shaped who I am today, because I really liked being in the space where you’re actually making the decisions. Right? So you you hire all the, you know, interior designers and project managers and, you know, general contractors and you hire you know, you find banks to give you loans and, but you’re the owner. Like, you’re in the position of the owner, and you ultimately get to make all the decisions, all the stress, and everything falls on your shoulders, but you you’re in the driver’s seat.

So I had that experience, which was absolutely phenomenal. And then just by way of that experience and, you know, people that I’d worked at that firm with, I got a call to come down to DC and join Pebblebrook Hotel Trust, which was just being formed and launched. A brand new hotel re basically a start up. Everyone was kind of getting handpicked to come in. And, you know, I was still fairly young, and I was single. And I was like, well, I can always go back to New York. Let me go down and see what DC is all about.

And I had never worked at a public company before, so it was extremely exciting to come down. There was probably only, like, fifteen employees at the time, get asset management set up, and go through the paces of what’s involved in being part of a public company, which I’d always work for private companies. I mean, it is intense. I mean, public companies run a whole other very regimented schedule, and it was like I felt like I was, like, coming alive again and learning so much more, you know, in my mid to late thirties than I had ever learned up to that point. Just so much more discipline and focus and prioritization, and just like it was one after another. I mean, we had got just gone public and had all this money, and we were just, you know, vying for properties one after another. Seemed like we are buying a new property kind of every other week and then also building out the whole company.

So that was kind of, I mean, I haven’t jumped around very much. I worked for I mean, if you count Curator where I am today, which is like an offshoot of Pebblebrook, it’s just really it’s just four companies in my whole, career for a good amount of times at each and kind of the the tying factor was all, all, you know, being involved in ownership organizations.

Sebastien Leitner

Wow. One must lead to the next by the sounds of it. Right? Like Your experiences with franchisees, with owners, with operators, with brand led you to where you are now by the south. So I wanna I wanna hear how how that happened because you started the conversation with I’m I’m I’m staying up at night because independent hotels are disappearing. Now your company, Curator, if I understand correctly, is servicing independent hotels, is embracing independent hotels, is enabling. Seems like there is a story here that that is almost linear. Help me understand how you ended up with Curator.

Jennifer Barnwell

Yeah. So it was born out of what we were doing for ourselves at Pebblebrook when I was part of the asset management group. So, really, from the beginning of Pebblebrook, there was always interest, and you saw it in the portfolio and the purchases and acquisitions over time in independent hotels. I mean, the CEO had come from LaSalle that had, you know, plenty of independent boutique lifestyle hotels as well. So Pebblebrook has always been, very well diversified in terms of kind of geography, but also independence and brand franchise and, you know, a few brand managed, as well.

So I ended up as an asset manager at Pebblebrook having, again, the true good fortune of working on a lot of the independent hotels in the portfolio because I was overseeing hotels in LA and San Francisco where we had a lot of independence. And just working with those teams and going through most of them when we were renovating and repositioning and sometimes renaming, just going through that process was so inspiring, because I’m pretty self aware in terms of being pretty analytical person and then just, like, contractual, like, agreements, and those kind of things are kinda my wheelhouse. But sitting in a design meeting with an interior designer and seeing like, hearing the vision, you know, the words, the storytelling, and then seeing the renderings and the images, I mean, that’s something I definitely cannot do. I love to be part of it, but I find it so inspiring and interesting and, you know, makes my my job at that point, like, even more, interesting to me.

So while an asset manager at Pebblebrook, I was gaining whole lot of experience. Like I said earlier, you know, my first interaction with Kim, also my first interaction with Viceroy, and other independent managers that Pebblebrook worked with over the years. And it was like, wow. Really opened my eyes because I’d come from mostly a brand managed or brand franchise history or experience. So I just absolutely fell in love with it and was really drawn to working on the independence more so. And I did work at both on Pebblebrook. I mean, some brand managed is a whole different beast. Yeah. And you kind of, you know, you get a few wins here and there, but there’s a lot that, you know, is, inflexible, I will say, and, you know, untouchable, and you just have to kinda swallow that.

So it really kind of the germination of Curator, I would say, happened when, Pebblebrook actually ended up buying another publicly traded REIT LaSalle and combining the two companies together. And then the portfolio doubled in size overnight to sixty four properties. So we combined the two companies, created a whole a little subset team with an asset management that was completely focused on finding value, cost savings opportunities, new technologies and systems and products to, you know, beta tests and pilot tests because we had doubled in size. We’re pretty sizable at that point. So let’s figure out the things. What can we harness through our new scale? Right?

So Curator was an outgrowth of what Pebblebrook had done for itself. Like, we got so so much bigger. Which vendor should we be working with in certain spaces? Can we get some cost efficiencies out of them? And can we keep our finger on the pulse of what’s happening out there and test these new, maybe, different aspects of the tech stack or different products, like I said, in services to see if we then wanna, you know, rule them out and put them in more of our hotels. So all that told, I wasn’t in that little group at the time. It did internally save Pebblebrook, on a p and l basis, kind of multiple millions of dollars.

And so lots of conversations with vendors, lots of conversations with the operators that Pebblebrook was using at that time ended up in the idea, like, why don’t we roll this whole kind of work plan out publicly as a separate company? And that that’s really what Curator was meant to be. And while at launch, it was, a collection, a public collection that any independent boutique hotel can be a part of to harness the power of scale that they can’t do on their own. Because you might be a single owner operated independent hotel. You might be a group of only maybe four or five independents. Or even if you’re a group of fifteen or twenty, you know, curator had the the promise of being a hundred, two hundred. Maybe it will be three hundred hotels someday.

So that was our mentality going into every negotiation and picking the best vendor in every space first and foremost, but then negotiating the best terms we had ever seen, you know, in all of our past experience. So the idea was offer this up. It’s a safe place for independent and boutiques to come into to get some cost savings, be more profitable, perhaps then stay independent or make staying independent maybe a little bit easier than it otherwise would be.

So we started as a b to b business, back in the end of twenty twenty. And now since kind of the end of twenty twenty three, we’ve been kinda tiptoeing into the b and c’s the b to c space to see if we can raise awareness for our hotels, amplify them, and send them referrals that end up in incremental direct bookings. So we’ve been working on that recently too.

Sebastien Leitner

Wow. That’s exciting. So I guess to a hotel developer. Right? What what would you recommend? You know, you’ve been in the shoes. Right? You’ve been, should I brand a property? Should I stay independent? Is this always a financial discussion? What what are some of the variables that you look at when deciding independent versus brat?

Jennifer Barnwell

You know, there’s definitely a ton of variables. Some of the things I would mention would be, certainly, your capital stack kind of matters. So, it depends kind of who you are, what your history is, what your lending relationships are, if you need lending. Because there is kind of this idea with some lenders that you know, there’s a whole group in the, you know, in the lending environment that, really only wanna lend. Like, they feel safer, right, if it’s branded. So it depends on what you need in your capital stack. It it will it will potentially be, depending on the location, a harder project to fund if you go down the independent path.

That being said, I mean, there’s plenty of markets where it’s over not overrun, but there’s plenty of independence. And they do well, like, you know, San Francisco, LA, tons of resorts are independent and do, you know, fantastic. So, part of it is, how you’re gonna get your funding and maybe the easiest way to get that. Part of it is definitely location where you can kind of be the most successful.

I mean, if you’re surrounded by brands and you’re the only independent, that’s gonna be, you know, challenging and tough depending on what you have to offer and who is operating your building because there’s so many, you know, fantastic operators of independence that are successful. Profitability is a is obviously a big consideration. There are a ton, and some you can’t even find them in the p and l. There’s just so many fees and costs associated with being part of a brand that can have that can lead to profitability certainly suffering. On the independent side, things are much more transparent. Like, you know exactly the fees you’re paying your operator, where they’re going, and you just have to understand their capabilities in the independent space. Like, can they really drive the revenue and drive guest experience, you know, and drive performance on the bottom line?

There’s a lot of a lot of considerations in it, I think, but it does mainly come back to, you know, how are you gonna fund it and what do your investors want. But it’s going down the independent boutique route is definitely more challenging. You don’t have a big brand, you know, and all their brand awareness and all, you know, their loyalty channel to plug into. But, gosh, it’s so much more fun and rewarding and and interesting every day.

Sebastien Leitner

It is so much more fun and interesting. I mean, that was that that’s awesome. Yeah. I mean, we see this all the time. Right? We have, owners approach us and say, hey. We’re currently flagged. We’re thinking of the flagging. We’re thinking of, you know, what support can you provide? And I used to work myself for Expedia, which, you know, as an OTA, you tend to embrace independent hotels much more because they need you. Right? They don’t have the power necessarily of the of the big brands. And it’s interesting that you are shifting to demand generation with creator as well. You’re you’re trying to, create a brand, amongst your independent hotels to potentially, share business. And are you thinking loyalty program as well, distribution as well? Where what’s your end goal there?

Jennifer Barnwell

Yeah. I mean, we’re definitely not there yet. I think, we just as a company, it’s incumbent upon us to make sure we’re continually creating value for our members. So it started with the b to c in terms of all the contracts we put together from a cost savings perspective. But in all that work, finding vendors in certain spaces and and and, recommended partnerships, We also do have partnerships with some revenue producing groups.

So we were very early on partnered with Capital One, their credit card program. It has been phenomenal for our members to be part of that and that we like it because it was new and upcoming over a year ago, and it’s direct. Even the hotels work directly with them to give them inventory, they’re not going through an OTA to pull it. So the cost structure works, and it’s a closed member group, and it’s really producing well.

We have a few other things. We were partnered with mister and missus Smith. We’re partnered with things like Travelzoo, and other options. But for the independent space, certainly driving top line is paramount, of course, and it’s challenging. And if there is any way whatsoever to displace, even if it’s a little bit of OTA business, it’s so attractive to independent hotels. Right? Because, they definitely rely on the OTAs, and there’s no judgment there. It just is what it is. A very high percentage of independent boutique hotel segmentation comes from OTA. It’s kind of necessary.

But it’s so expensive. If you look at the commissions, they charge the independence, and they will not negotiate at all plus all the ancillary dollars, whether travel ads or accelerator or whatever it is, coop marketing. For for some of these independent boutiques, it can it can get close to thirty percent that it costs you for your OTA bookings. So if there’s any way that we can drive them some more awareness and incremental bookings on a direct basis, it’s, I mean, of course, everything we do at Curator, it’s meant to be additive. We’re not we’re not competing with the with what the hotel is already doing for themselves.

We’re very top of funnel awareness campaigns. We’re a referral site. We wanna we’re driving a ton of traffic to our site to see our hotels and then ultimately go book on the hotel sites themselves, and we have all the statistics and tracking to show that it’s working. But that’s where we are today. I wouldn’t call us a brand today. We’re not a brand. It’s kind of a loose affiliation and collective and, you know, cross pollinating each other because why not, right, with some email campaigns. And it’s working. At some point soon, you know, we’re gonna keep aggregating the data, looking back and saying, okay. Well, what can we how can we push this even farther to help hotels on the top line, you know, specifically rooms revenue, but also booking all the amazing experiences that they have created for themselves that’s unique to them. It’s not, we’ll go take a boat ride and go deep sea fishing. It’s specifically tied to our hotels, and we feature them all on our website too.

Sebastien Leitner

God. That’s so amazing. And I’m sure they would want you to be successful and bring you incrementality, especially if, you know, they are paying thirty percent or upwards up to thirty percent in commissions at

Jennifer Barnwell

It’s painful. I mean, to your point earlier, it’s just the independent hotels are the OTA’s absolute best supplier on a, you know, per room commission basis. What these independent hotels pay is outrageous, but we don’t have the leverage that the big brands have. So the big brands keep getting their commissions cut every year, every every couple years. Meanwhile, they shouldn’t even need the OTAs, in my opinion, although they’re on them all the time.

Sebastien Leitner

Interesting. But it’s such a it’s a fraction of the segmentation in a branded hotel that it isn’t an independent, but the OTAs, you know, I don’t wanna go on a a a complete tangent, but they don’t they don’t treat their best clients or their best suppliers very well. It’s my opinion.

Jennifer Barnwell

Okay. Okay.

Sebastien Leitner

We can’t talk about distribution without talking about Google and without talking about social. Right? Like, I’m I’m watching my kids interact with platforms that I don’t even understand yet at this point in time. I’m wondering if that is where they will find inspiration when they decide to travel. At times, maybe not. Maybe they’ll ask me. Who knows? But I’m I’m curious how you’re thinking about let’s start with the big g with the Google and the world. How are you thinking about the TikTok generation, the sort of social aspect of travel. Is this something you’re watching? Is this something you’re investing in? Is this something that you think hotels should do more of?

Jennifer Barnwell

Yeah. We are specifically investing in that space because our positioning is we wanna capture the people, meaning drive them to our website when they are dreaming about their next trip, when they’re, you know, just trying to gather ideas of what they wanna do. So we are focusing our digital marketing efforts through a couple areas. We’re doing, you know, the typical kind of PPC keywords, you know, through Google word buys, but we’re focused on, you know, what they call top of funnel. Right? So we’re focused on the high generic terms. We’re, you know, competing with the OTs on that. But we think that’s where we should be because we’re trying to not compete with at the hotel level, and they’re, you know, much more down funnel.

But so we are investing, you know, pretty substantially in the digital marketing space through Google. We’re doing display ads and retargeting. Again, it’s specific to what we have to offer with our collection and our experiences, trying to capture the dreamers to come to our site, and then ever evolving our site with content so that they they will actually come back. So it’s kinda like this idea of people probably go to Expediant Booking a lot to shop because it’s all right there. Well, smaller scale, but we want that to be the thought about curator. If you want something unique and interesting and memorable in the hotel travel space, come to Curator website because we have over a hundred experiences, you know, and we have almost a hundred. I’m sorry. We have a hundred hotels, over a hundred hotels to check out, but also almost a hundred experiences that you can have at these various hotels, like, all in one spot.

And then social, we revamped our social channels near the end of last year. And my gosh, Instagram is just a wonder. Like, it is so successful for us to post. I don’t wanna use the overused word authentic, but I will say, you know, not too slick or overbranded, but posts and videos and reels and, you know, carousels that are true to our branding and what we have to offer and look interesting. And we also do the ads and, promoted posts, And it drives a ton of traffic to our site, so there’s no doubt people are looking on social for inspiration, especially Instagram.

I would tell you on TikTok, I mean, there’s so much talk about it. We’ve been going kinda round and round with our agency about it, and they’ve, you know, done some due diligence on our member hotels that are on it and kinda what happens. And we’re the jury’s still out for us on TikTok on whether or not it’s truly effective yet for driving traffic to a website and ultimately purchases. So we haven’t we haven’t done TikTok yet, but I’m reserving it, you know, for the near future to where it’s always under consideration.

Sebastien Leitner

Excellent. Excellent. Very cool. I’m curious, you know, going back a little bit to what you do. A lot of independent hotels reach out to you for guidance on what technology they should invest in. You you’re helping them source better terms and conditions. What are some of the areas that hotels are investing in today? And maybe adding to that, what should they invest more in from your perspective that they’re maybe not doing enough?

Jennifer Barnwell

Yeah. The biggest thing that we’re seeing is, in in the independent space in the hotels we work with is there has and no one has said the hotel industry is, like, super quick to change. Right? So, I mean, this this may sound like a dated comment, although it’s not because it’s still happening today. We’ve got hotels that are finally embracing cloud based platforms. So we’ve had a lot of movement in our hotels on the PMS side, you know, going from not only on prem, but, someone who may have been kind of the old school incumbent with a lot of these, but moving to someone that’s more cloud based and nimble and kind of more straightforward and easy. We’ve so we’ve seen a lot of movement to more both client and consumer friendly PMS systems.

Also on the POS side too, we’ve seen a lot of movement. A lot of our hotels have changed out old historic POS systems to something much more user friendly, cloud based. Finally, I mean, you know, I’ve been an asset man I was an asset manager starting, like, fourteen years ago, and it was like back then, it was like, how do we get the remote tablet so you can do everything at the table? Like, finally, it’s twenty twenty four. So we finally have reliable partners in the POS space. So a lot of hotels are investing in that to be more efficient. It’s definitely gonna help revenue. If you can get to your tables and key in revenue quicker and sometimes, you know, with the QR codes and everything, the guests can order it themselves and just it makes your revenue potential that much greater.

Those are kind of the the biggest things we’ve seen kind of from the the tech platform other than, there’s also been a lot of hotels just use for years and years. Everyone was comfortable with moving to something that’s, you know, cloud based, more dynamic, and has helped, you know, the revenue pricing and and helped everyone kinda get incrementally to a better place than they were before.

So what we’ve seen over the last kind of three years of our existence is people really once you get out of COVID, taking a really hard look at how did our old vendors service us during COVID? Were they nice? Were they not nice? You know, history doesn’t matter anymore live here. Because it’s irrelevant. Nobody’s comparing to twenty twenty or will ever in history anymore. So can we start fresh with something that’s much more user friendly and efficient for us? So we’ve seen that really throughout the tech stack. CRS has been pretty consistent. We don’t seem people are pretty happy with whoever they’re using at the at the point, even though I know there’s new players in that space that are pretty exciting that we’re researching. PMS, POS, and RMS have we’ve seen a lot of changes in that in the last few years.

Sebastien Leitner

Is there any area that hotels should invest in that they’re not investing enough?

Jennifer Barnwell

You know, I think, it’s a little bit of a quandary, because I would say I would say offering choice is always a good idea, I think. So offering certain services and, like, leave it to the guest to use it or not. So I personally have someone who likes text messaging. Right? So I like test text messaging. I like the idea of online check-in and mobile key. It pretty much continues to being a little bit murky, though, in terms of there’s so many players that do it or say they can do it. Some of them are all separate companies, and you have to make sure they all integrate together. Some companies are trying to bring it all together under one umbrella.

We’ve been doing pilot testing on this stuff, you know, kind of onesies and twosies for years now. And it’s frustrating because it’s gotta work. Right? And then in some cases where we have it in place, people aren’t using it. So then you’re like, okay. Why did I bother? So I think customer engagement tools are always a good idea to invest in, but it and this is kinda where Curator comes in. But you really gotta make sure you understand everyone that’s in that space, what they can do and can’t do, and pick the right one to go with and make sure, you know, the onboarding’s great and they’re effective and it works. And then even after you do that, someone may buy them. And you end up they’re part of some other company things together. On technology at all, but it’s complicated.

Sebastien Leitner

No. I get it. We bought a company as well. We bought Whistle a few years back because we wanted to integrate the check-in experience, the contactless experience into our PMS because we think it’s should be part of it. For sure. Wait to demo that to you. Anyway, but I hear you. Right? Text messages, I’m a big fan. Funnily enough, I still prefer an actual physical key. I don’t like my phone as a key because it’s never fully loaded.

Jennifer Barnwell

Yeah. I I’m I’m afraid that the door won’t open. I I’m a big fan of the physical key, so I’m old school.

Sebastien Leitner

I’m Well, I will tell you my I agree with you.

Jennifer Barnwell

My very favorite thing are the wristband keys. Oh, that’s not bad. Yes. Bernoulli, they’re only at resorts. But, man, when I get a wristband key, it’s actually makes me very happy. Because it’s fail proof. It works. It’s there’s never an issue somehow. You don’t have to, like, put it in a pocket. Like, it’s always on you. It’s so easy and convenient. It also doesn’t demagnetize or whatever.

Sebastien Leitner

Now you were talking about things. One piece of technology that you think is disappearing from the hotel room.

Jennifer Barnwell

Oh, the phone? Is it already gone? Could be gone already? Well, I guess, so I guess legally, you probably still need a way to call nine one one, so that’s not gonna happen. But, I mean, I’m old enough that it was the days where, you know, you had three phones in the room. And then all of a sudden, it just, like, one moment. The bathroom, which never understood why, but okay. If I just went in the bathroom and then it’s a standard room, but you gotta have one over here. You gotta have one by the bed and then also one by the desk. So I guess I’m at least seeing the evolution where there’s just one little skinny handheld phone, like, maybe by the bed and that’s all that’s it anymore.

Gosh. That’s a good question. I don’t think I have another answer for that because I’m thinking of our rooms. It’s like, I don’t think the TV is going anywhere. I just think everyone’s gonna cast their content onto it. So everyone’s gonna bring their own accounts. The phone the the the TV is there, but pay TV is gone. You you’re bringing your own And just, like, really simple too when I travel maybe. But it’s like, the TV can be there. You can have a bunch of local channels, but all you should worry about is people casting their content on the TV. Thank you. Because when I see the stats from these, TV providers, it’s like there’s a huge percentage of people that don’t even turn on the TV at all, which I guess is the argument for not having one, but I still think you do because, people now, you can watch what you want what what you wanna watch when you wanna watch it.

Sebastien Leitner

I’m glad it is. So if there’s no casting, I just watch my phone, which kinda sucks, but I do it on the plane anyway in my little screen. So I think everyone is just conditioned to watch their own content. And if it doesn’t work on the big TV, they just won’t turn it on, so you should make sure it works. I like I love the speakers in the rooms. They use them. I mean, do you need the clock part of it now? I think every room still needs a Bluetooth speaker at some point because it’s kinda fun and usable. I mean, what other electronics are there in the room? I think we found a few. The thermostat. The thermostat should be on your phone.

Jennifer Barnwell

That? You need that. Yeah. I don’t want too much stuff on my phone.

Sebastien Leitner

Yeah. Before we wrap up, I mean, this is gonna be a difficult question for you. I’m sure it is. Your favorite independent hotel worldwide.

Jennifer Barnwell

Oh, my god. Oh, it’s not hard. Okay. Now there you go. There you go. It’s called Is it part of your collection? I wish it was. It’s called, Casa Angelina. It’s in Italy. Why can’t I think of the area? And, oh my gosh.

Sebastien Leitner

Amalfi?

Jennifer Barnwell

Amalfi Coast. Yes. Yes. Yes. It’s on Amalfi Coast. Years ago, my husband and I were trying to find somewhere to go. We thought we wanted to go to a multi, you know, doing all this research, and this is actually years ago. We did it all. We ended up picking through TripAdvisor, and it was just one of those magical trips where it was some I mean, all those pictures of a multi coast are beautiful to begin with, but in person, it was absolutely spectacular. We’ve been lucky enough to go twice in the last how old is my daughter now? In the last, like, five years.

So, hopefully, we’ll make it back there again. And I’m not big on necessarily going back to the same place internationally over and over because I like to have new experiences, but, I follow them on Instagram. I’m, sometimes happy to see the pictures, but it also makes me sad that we’re not there. So Casa Angelina, look it up. It’s absolutely spectacular. The best service, beautiful, super relaxing.

Sebastien Leitner

My follow-up question was going through where you travel to next, but it could be Casa, Angelina. Where are you going next?

Jennifer Barnwell

Well, it is exciting now because I used to live there. I’m going to New York next month for work. Nice. But after that, we just personal family thing. We we’re in the DC area. And so if you’re here, people go to the beaches in Delaware. So we have a little family tradition now that we go down to this little town called Lewis in Delaware. We rent a beach house every year. So that’s what we do in June every year. So that’s my next little personal jaunt with the kids.

Sebastien Leitner

Sounds fantastic. Sounds fantastic. This is gonna be great. Jen, thank you so much for being on the program. Really enjoyed our conversation, and I can’t wait to catch up with you in person, maybe in New York. I know. I know. Maybe, you know, early June, I’ll be in New York. But, anyway, thank you for being on the phone. Too. Thank you for listening to The Turndown. Don’t forget to subscribe and tune in next week as we discover new exciting guests.