Sébastien Leitner
Imagine someone buys you a brand new car. Beautiful, fast, everything you asked for. There’s just one problem. Nobody taught you how to drive it. That in one sentence is what a hotel technology transition actually feels like. And it’s exactly where my guest today spends his working life. Welcome to The Turndown. I am Sebastian and today I’m joined by Jason Edwards, project manager at Première Advisory Group. The guy owners call when a hotel has to change its engine while doing fifty five on the highway. Jason has run more PMS, CRS, and RMS implementations than most hoteliers will see in an entire career. In fact, ninety percent of the people he works with are tackling a system change for the very first time. So in this episode, we get into the stuff nobody puts in a press release. Why the smart strategic decisions made in the boardroom hits the front desk far too late to execute well? What actually happens the morning after hotel goes dark on its brand? The system, the website, the OTA accounts, the Google listing, the SEO, all of it gone overnight. Why? If you build it, they will come as the most expensive sentence of independent hospitality. And whether AI is real buying decision yet or just an AI stapled onto the end of a URL. If you run a hotel, advise one or build the technology that keeps one alive. Follow the show and drop us a comment with a transition story you’re still recovering from. We read them all. Oh, and Jason tells me about one deal that was signed on a Thursday night and live on Monday morning. A full system built over a single weekend, guests still checking in and out the whole time. It worked, but he’ll also tell you why that go live was the easy part and what was still missing six months later. Let’s get into it. Hi there, Jason. It’s a pleasure to welcome you on the program. Welcome to the Turndan.
Jason Edwards
It’s a pleasure to be here.
Sébastien Leitner
Absolutely. I typically start with my sort of standard opening question, which is what’s keeping you up at night these days? Jason, where do you want to go with this question?
Jason Edwards
Outside of the first little things that keep me up, the big thing for me is when it comes to technology deployments, there’s a big disconnect between strategic decisions that are made by owners and the actual execution readiness by the operations team. The owners are making some good strategic decisions, rational decisions about how they want to shift their hotel and the direction they want to go. But quite often, the team they have isn’t quite ready for that, or the change comes very late in the game for them, and it becomes, okay, how do we get this done in the timeline that it’s looking to happen? So that’s, you know, that’s where a lot of value tends to happen, leakage happens during this process is, know, owners ready to go forward and have some new vision for the property, and the operations team has potentially never ever done a technology installation to begin with. So how do they start that off? That’s the biggest challenge I see and what keeps me up, but it also keeps me employed too.
Sébastien Leitner
That’s a bold statement. So let me paraphrase that so I’m getting this right. Someone is buying you a brand new car and you don’t know how to drive it.
Jason Edwards
That Yeah. It’s it’s like moving from to in some situations, a stick shift to manual or a manual to a stick shift for some folks.
Sébastien Leitner
Okay.
Jason Edwards
If you never if you’re used to used to one type of vehicle all your life and have to shift, there’s a change management that has to happen in how you work and how you think and how you do.
Sébastien Leitner
So do you view yourself as the driving instructor?
Jason Edwards
Yes. I’ve done numerous implementations from PMSs, CRSs, RMSs, so I’ve got a better or great understanding of how they all work together. And for the most part, PMSs tend to work the same manner. It’s where you go click to do the same things. You check people in and out. You collect payments. You manage housekeeping. There are bells and whistles in every system, so I was learning and understanding those pieces, but it’s starting off and knowing who you’re working with. What’s their background? What kind of experience do they have? And understanding from the beginning, hey, what are you concerned about? What are you worried about with this transition? To to better understand what are some of those road bump speed bumps and things that are come that are gonna come along, and how do you work to ease their concerns and kind of hold their hand to get across that bridge?
Sébastien Leitner
Want to talk about all of those, all of those. But before we get into the sort of weeds, let’s maybe take a little bit of a step back and introduce you to the audience of this podcast, right? So how would you describe, I guess, your position, your role, and what you do for the owners and operators of hotels?
Jason Edwards
As a project manager of Première Advisory Group, my role is to come in during technology transitions, hotel transitions of different types to understand what’s the goal, what are we looking to do, it was the system transitions, how many, what types, what’s going on, are they looking to make a strategic shift in the direction of the hotel, or are they just trying to keep moving along but need something better in toolbox? So I’m here to help bring forth revenue management experience, distribution and marketing from our entire team to roll out a system. You can roll a system out, but if you don’t have your commercial strategy in place and knowing where you wanna go, the system’s just there. It functions. It doesn’t make you the money, so it’s working to set the system up in the right manner so that your strategy will work and the your commercial team’s out there creating that demand, and then your system’s able to capture it and turn it over turn it into business that’s profitable for you.
Sébastien Leitner
And the system you’re referring to could be anything. It is a revenue management system. It is a point of sale system. It’s a accounting system. It’s a PMS system. It’s any, I guess, system change that you’re involved in?
Jason Edwards
Correct. Yeah. It’s really the there’s three key ones that that drive revenue, and that’s your PMS, your CRS, and your RMS. They’re very important if you don’t have those set up right and you’re not investing the right money into marketing to bring your brand forward to the to the customers. Your PMS is is kind of pointless when it comes to checking people in and out if you don’t have customers. Your accounting system doesn’t have much value at that point, the point of sale system for a restaurant. You don’t have that demand coming into the hotel and you’re capturing it. All these other systems are just systems sitting there at that point. So it’s really the key three of the PMS, CRS, and RMS that really drive the strategy for the hotel and bring the revenue in for the owner. That’s where then the PMS is a very important factor in how you run the operations of the hotel.
Sébastien Leitner
Yeah.
Jason Edwards
What pieces do you have there to engage the customer and and grow them and make them happy.
Sébastien Leitner
When do these changes happen? Right? I I wanna talk a little bit around what triggers some of that change. Is it the owner or deciding one day to the next that they want a new system? Like in your experience, what’s triggering these changes?
Jason Edwards
Typically, these changes are triggered based on, challenges that are happening at the hotel.
Sébastien Leitner
Okay.
Jason Edwards
Typically more typically on the operational side or on the selling side of the hotel. When you’re looking at the operational aspect, there could be difficulties for the operations team and with the current property management system to do what they need to do, for the customers. You know, check out and check outs and seem pretty straightforward, but if it takes your front desk five minutes to check someone in because your system is slow and has different processes things you gotta go to, and you can move to a new property management system where the customer has the ability to pre check-in and the check-in process to get a key is thirty seconds. That’s an increase in guest loyalty and guest experience and sentiment that goes a long way to generating revenue down the road. So that’s kind of, you know, there’s operational factors that usually revolve around what are the customers complaining about that can be solved by, a system change. There’s operational procedures that potentially could be changed as well. But when it comes to revenue generation, there’s limitations between different PMSs and CRSs and, things. So it’s what is needed for the hotel strategically in the future. I’ve been working with, some property, several properties here recently that, you know, they’re kind of getting to the point where their current setup is kind of limiting what they want to do. So they need to go towards a more advanced, such a reservation system option to really grow to the next level. Ways it comes out, comes back from the operational sales team or the owner decide has a strategic direction, whether they’re moving off from a brand or there’s been some kind of ownership change. Maybe they sold off part of the hotel kind of situation. So that then as well, or can be another trigger.
Sébastien Leitner
Yeah. And that, it often happens. I mean, if we stay on the flagging transition exercise, right? Like a lot of brands bring their own technology and their own sort of setup. They have their own CRS, they have their own relationship with PMS products and services. Once you stop being part of that brand, the usage of that system almost is no longer available to you as an operator. Is that fair?
Jason Edwards
That’s very fair to say. They, for the most part, they cut off overnight. Your last night of stay, you’re checking people out of the system in that morning, and that following night you’ve lost access to the system.
Sébastien Leitner
And from your point of view, is that some of the more exciting projects that you’re working on because there’s a huge time crunch? Is that it?
Jason Edwards
They they can be. You know, we we did one with you guys that that, was a contract was signed Thursday night. We got access overnight for a resource in the UK to start working early morning Eastern Time. And we finished up through that Friday night getting the system built out for the customer. Sunday evening, when the last night they had in the reservation system Monday morning, they could start checking people in and out and being able to continue operating their hotel. And I’ll say that as an operational B and movement, there’s still a lot left to do with the brand transition from a commercial and strategic perspective. Selling outward bound on the OTAs, having a website, claiming your Google listing, all those different pieces that are critical to in a change. You know, a lot of owners think, oh, I just need to change systems and business will come. There’s a lot more to the system itself. It’s a functional tool to help you get where you want, but you have to have the right people and strategy and things in place to get there.
Sébastien Leitner
We’re going back to that car analogy. We’re driving. Right? We’re on the highway. We’re doing fifty five miles and you’re changing the engine while you’re driving, right?
Jason Edwards
Correct. Yeah.
Sébastien Leitner
You’re under pressure to change that engine, right? Like you’re under pressure. But, you know, maybe getting new tires or I guess a new coat of paint is something you do a weekend or two weeks later. Is that fair? Like there are certain tasks you have to do, I guess within a very short amount of time to keep the lights on to permit the hotel operator from continuing to serve the guests, check-in, check out, providing housekeeping services. Like the minimum important information, but maybe to your point, the connection to Google or the connection to Booking dot com just as important, but can happen the next day or within a short amount of time. Is that fair?
Jason Edwards
Yeah. That’s a very fair assessment. The basic fundamentals of a PMS and everything is is the operational control. You have customers whether you’re a branded hotel or not or changing from brand to there that that are in the hotel, and they’re gonna be staying through this transition or they’re checking in the next day. And Yeah. Finding out last minute, oh, you can’t stay at this hotel anymore because we’re not x y z brand, isn’t good for the brand nor the hotel itself, for customer sentiment.
Sébastien Leitner
Yeah. I want to talk about what needs to happen for things to go right and go well. And then also some of the pitfalls potentially, because I think you started with the pitfalls, which is a great example, right? Like an owner and operator has made a decision to upgrade systems, but the team may not be ready for that transition yet, which is, you know, some of the challenges that need to be addressed through the process. But when things go right in an implementation, let’s say of a new PMS system or a new revenue management system, what are some of the best practices that you help drive that lead to that successful implementation?
Jason Edwards
Well, the first piece is sitting down and and laying out the plan.
Sébastien Leitner
Okay.
Jason Edwards
What what do we need to do? When do we need to do it by? So help people kinda understand. We are here today. How do we get to point Z on a certain date? So kind of helping lay those expectations out there. But it’s also knowing the people you’re working with. What has their past experience been? Are you working with individuals that have been at a hotel for ten to twenty or thirty years? Or are you working with folks that have been there for a few years? Or I’ve had a few situations where a general manager came in two months earlier. So it’s understanding that, and then their background, had they ever done a system transition before. So you can really get to know who people are. And then you’re able to really kind of help understand, you know, what I need to do for folks that have been there for a long time, they tend to be much more resistant to change. So, I take a different approach of with them, where it’s a lot more asking them questions, trying to really get them engaged, make them feel like they’re an owner and understanding, you know, how are they doing things now? Me knowing the system that they’re getting ready to get on, what can we do to understand what their frustrations are to alleviate those frustrations with the new system and kinda show them that, hey. There there is a lot of light at the end of this tunnel, and I can help you get there. And what you’ve just told me makes lots of sense. By making these these few tweaks and what you’ve been doing in this new system, you’re going to enjoy life a lot better. You’re going have more time. You’re going to be able to focus more on the customers rather than sitting behind that spreadsheet, trying to figure out what your rates should be and manually have them do those changes within the system. It’s really comes to people and understanding them and kind of help laying out the plan for them.
Sébastien Leitner
That is so interesting. As you were talking through it about people who have been there for a long time resisting change, it became so obvious that that could be actually quite a hard implementation from your point of view. Because they may argue, Don’t change anything. I know how to use the system. It’s working for me. Why are you changing the system? Is that what you’re observing?
Jason Edwards
Yeah, very much so. People are very comfortable with what they know and what they do. And when you introduce a new variable into their life, it’s difficult and challenging. I learned very early in my hospitality career when I was working front office that things change. And I visually saw folks that couldn’t make the change, my own peers, restored me with the change, and they didn’t end up staying around. It’s really about, in our industry and in life, change is inevitable. How you deal with it and how you adapt, which helps you grow and move in the future. That’s probably one of the biggest challenges with limitations, and they’re the ones that take the most time as well, because there’s a lot more conversations, more handholding. Most systems now have great training in place, very online trainings that you go through. But there’s a portion of our, of our demographics that just, that’s not what they’re used to. That being on computers and social media style videos and different things like that is that’s all new to them and it’s a struggle and it’s not something they’re comfortable with.
Sébastien Leitner
You work with a front office manager, right, on a property, how many in average, I mean, and you must be doing quite a few installations throughout the year, how often do they experience a system change in their professional care? Is it once, twice, three times?
Jason Edwards
I would say vast majority of folks that I talk with, this is typically their first change.
Sébastien Leitner
Wow.
Jason Edwards
And I look back in, you know, twenty years of my career here is there weren’t many options out there for various systems. It’s not until the last ten years when new system opportunities have come about. COVID made a big impact on owners’ thoughts and how they do things and always looking for something new and shiny, but also more cost effective than what they’ve been used to. So I would say in the last five to ten years, implementations of new systems, it’s happening much more than it was in the prior years. Those that have been around a long time, this could very well still be their very first implementation change.
Sébastien Leitner
Wow.
Jason Edwards
I’d say probably one out of ten that I engage with have actually done a change before.
Sébastien Leitner
Okay. Okay. Interesting. And those who’ve done the change, for them it’s easier, or they at least understand what what what’s ahead?
Jason Edwards
Yeah. They they tend to very much understand what’s coming.
Sébastien Leitner
Okay.
Jason Edwards
Been there, they’ve done that. You know, the first time you got up and rode your bike, you you fell down. It’s not something, but after you learned how to ride the bike, you’ve done it once. Getting back on that bike again, it’s it’s easier. You understand and know what’s happening. So it’s it’s a comfort level folks have after doing doing one of them.
Sébastien Leitner
Interesting. Interesting. You mentioned the deflagging the Thursday. I want to expand a little bit and talk a little bit more about the flagging use case. You mentioned that the contract was signed on Thursday and you went live on Friday. Why are so many deflagging transactions rushed or at times chaotic? Is it really just a contractual component or the sort of we’re switching the lights off from brand XYZ?
Jason Edwards
I think it’s a couple of different factors. Some of them are related to the brand. Removing a hotel from from their system for various reasons. Other times, it’s owners looking to make a strategic change in where they’re going. And I think a lot of this really happens at the ownership and at high executive levels of these conversations with the brands. Typically attorneys are engaged as well. And when you’re up at that level that it’s more of a contractual change that’s happening in their eyes and may not truly understand the impact, down at the property level of, Hey, there needs to be new systems in place. They could be owners that are really you know, hoping to, to be able to renew their agreement with the brand. And they, there’s lots of work trying to get there and get there until, until it’s finally at a point where it’s not going to happen, but time is wasted away over a course of six to eight months. And there, you’re now two months or one month away from when you’re going to lose the flag. It puts people in a, okay, oh wow, we got two months left. So what do we do now? We were really hoping we’re going to still have that flag and not have to go through any of this. So when you get that lower level of individuals, the general manager engaged in these different pieces, that’s like how we can check people in and out. How are we going to collect payment? Owners want their money. So how do, how do you go about that? So then it gets to, be in a rushed situation. And I think about like that engagement we were working with before. I don’t know the circumstances behind it, but it sounded like there’s a lot of communication gaps from the top to the bottom on how things transpired. And there was a sense that ownership was expecting to be able to still have the flag, but the flag said, sorry, no, we’re not going to continue on. And they’ve been negotiating for six months. So it then became a rush to figure out what do we do next.
Sébastien Leitner
And then when such deflag happens, right, it’s not only the system change, but a lot of times distribution, revenue management, the whole visibility of that property can disappear overnight. Is that fair?
Jason Edwards
That’s a very, very good statement. The brands do a lot of work. One of the concerns that owners typically have is there’s lots of fees related to brands. Those fees go to various things from marketing to system upgrades and pieces like that. You can bring a new PMS, a CRS, and RMS into play. But if you don’t have a new website, a branded website for your new hotel, how are people going to find you and use your new shiny booking engine? Your Google listing, your OTA accounts, they were owned by the brand. And the brands are big. There’s lots of bureaucracy and red tape that they got to go through when they’re taking up a property offline. They have their checklist of things they do, and everyone has their role. Their timeline typically doesn’t line up with the timeline of the owners. If I’m going dark on Sunday, I want to be live on Monday with everything. And that just doesn’t work that way. You’ve got a minimum of four to six weeks typically for a lot of those processes to play out because you’ve got one individual on a brand who owns the Expedia relationship. That information has to get down to that individual’s desk, and then they have to put it into the queue of the work they’re doing to notify Expedia that XYZ Hotel is officially no longer with us, release that hotel from our obligations. And then Expedia’s got to take that and do what they need to do internally. They have their own checklist. So it’s that process there that really is the lag. But once that stuff happens there on the OTA side, you then have to sign a contract with the OTA as the new owner or not even the new owner, but as the new operating style. You still typically have that profile from the last piece, but you’re going to have to go through and clean up the room types, clean up pictures potentially. If you have your branded logo in there in your room somehow, you can’t be using that picture anymore. So you need a new photoshoot without those pieces in play and getting things from that aspect. There’s a lot of things that have to happen once you go dark. And customers need to be able to find you. All the marketing, the brands we’re doing, the SEO, the pay per click, all those things that when people searched in your market, found your hotel, they’re not finding you anymore because you got a new website, you’re still working to claim your Google listing. There’s a gap in time to make things happen. And a lot of times, owners leave brains because of all the fees they pay. They feel like they can be more profitable as an independent. And there’s potential for that, but not on day one, potentially not even after six months. You gotta spend that money. You gotta get your website built. You gotta get the SEO. You gotta get the pay per click out there, or you may need some PR agencies to help raise their awareness of your hotel. Essentially, you’re a new brand once you leave a branded hotel company. So how do customers find you? It goes back to the movie Field of Dreams where they talked about if you build it, they will come. That’s not the way it happens in the hotel world. If you launch a new hotel, if you’re not spending the money putting the effort out there from the marketing side, but also from the sales side, reconnecting with your local contacts and getting their accounts back at your hotel, you are really relying on people finding you either on an OTA or stumbling across you on the website, on the internet.
Sébastien Leitner
Amazing. So going back to the sort of when things go well, right, to that theme of, you know, the perfect transition project, how much time should an owner dedicate to planning a successful deflagging, I guess, project? In ideal world, right?
Jason Edwards
Like ideal situation?
Sébastien Leitner
Correct.
Jason Edwards
In a minimum three months, what I’ll leave, ideally six months. That way you can really take a look at, there feels like there’s thousands of property management systems out there. What is it that your need is? And being able to spend the time with the sales managers, the various PMSs to find out, you know, which one’s gonna be best. It’s it’s but first of all, it’s understanding what are your strategic goals. How do you wanna operate? And then finding the right PMS, and you need to get the right CRS and RMS in place, that whole distribution landscape to find the right piece. And that could take some time, but it’s also making sure you have the right players in the room. If the owners are doing this at the high level and they’re not bringing in their general manager or front office manager or housekeeping manager, There’s a gap there because those individuals live and breathe by the system. And they know what worked before, what didn’t work, are valuable assets. And, you know, if they understand the goal of the owner, those individuals can provide some great insights to, you know, that system’s not going to work for our needs to do what you want to do. So it’s the operational team, but also the revenue team, revenue manager, marketing and sales. They all work together to, for the hotel to grow, make revenue, but also then how do you manage your costs when things happen on property?
Sébastien Leitner
Is there a particular property or property type that is more suited to go independent? Or is there, you know, are there types of properties that, you know, should stay with the brand in your opinion?
Jason Edwards
To become an independent, you really need some key pieces. You need to be in a location where you have a lot of control and you have something unique to be able to offer, you need to be able to have the right people. Brands bring a lot of value from loyalty, from the chain codes and such like that, so you need to be able to have a strong marketing organization. You need strong sales, you need strong revenue management who can go out and get the business that the brands would have brought to you. People are a key aspect to that. So it’s having a good location, having the right people, but then getting the right systems in place to support everyone to accomplish the goals you’re looking for. Going independent requires more effort and more work, but there could be greater returns by being independent as well.
Sébastien Leitner
You mentioned location a couple of times, and I want to sort of double click on that. Why is it location so important in the decision independent versus brand? Why do you think that is?
Jason Edwards
People, when they are driven to travel and they’re going to particular locations, there’s certain aspects in different markets that could be the hype or be the big piece to go, place to go. When you’re going to New York City, there’s different boroughs and places like that. So it’s understanding the customer and the demand base. Where where is that coming in? And and do you feel as an owner with your team that you can grab that by having a prominent location, having some great views, or, a great mix of amenities or unique style of your property. There are customers out there that, you know, really like brands and like that cookie cutter style piece, but there’s a lot of customers out there that want unique experiences. So, if you’re in a market, in a particular area of that market, where uniqueness is very valued and the customer base in that area is that type, and you add the people behind you, you have a great opportunity to do well as an independent. Yeah. If you’re a roadside hotel, being independent doesn’t really bring much value to you. People have it takes a lot more for customers to find you.
Sébastien Leitner
And the brand can help you find those customers, reverse it.
Jason Edwards
Yeah. Because people, you know, driving down the highway or different places, joining these very non populated areas, it’s much harder to be found in those situations, but it’s much easier with the art with our brand. People know Marriott, know Hilton, they know Hyatt, and it’s they know the brands, and it’s easy for them, Okay, need to see what’s out there, and quickly search and find something.
Sébastien Leitner
When a property deflags or when a new property opens, we’ll use both use cases, and I assume the answer is similar. How many systems are we actually talking about today? Right? I mean, I remember talking to hotels that had twenty, thirty, forty, fifty systems, or different systems like in use. What do you see the average to be today? Maybe let’s narrow it down to your type of properties that you’re most familiar with, which is what? Independent hotels, four stars?
Jason Edwards
Primarily independent hotels, yeah. Yeah. Three three to four stars, large markets, tertiary markets.
Sébastien Leitner
Larger okay. A hundred rooms roughly average? Yep.
Jason Edwards
A hundred to two hundred rooms. Yeah. A hundred rooms average kind of piece. Yep.
Sébastien Leitner
Okay. So how many? You know, gun to your head, how many systems are we talking about?
Jason Edwards
So when when they’re opening on day one, how many systems do people typically have?
Sébastien Leitner
Yeah.
Jason Edwards
So you got the you got the PMS, you got the RMS and CRS, kind of the key points there. Usually, there’s an accounting system. You got the keys.
Sébastien Leitner
We’re at five already. Yep. And you got I’m just keeping track the system. You got six there.
Jason Edwards
Then, you know, I’d say six is probably the the starting point most customers have. Those that want to get a little bit more involved, you would add in a CRM and a sales and catering system as those key pieces.
Sébastien Leitner
And so it’s really about eight of them, but there are some hotels that get out there and do a lot more things after they’ve been around a little bit. Okay.
Jason Edwards
Getting engaged in point systems and keyless check ins and kiosks and various different pieces and try all these new things that can be bolted onto a system. So you can’t have a lot of systems. There’s a point when there’s too many systems. If you don’t have someone who owns a system and is managing it and getting the value out of the system, it could still be integrated. At that point, it’s just a paperweight that you’re spending money on. So why do you have the integration? So you can go overboard. If something, that key and the person leaves, who takes that over? Is there someone to do that?
Sébastien Leitner
Makes sense. And in your discussions with owners, are they looking more for best in breed, meaning hub and spoke models where you have one PMS connecting to as many systems as possible? Or is the trend more to all in one, you know, selecting a software provider that can potentially cover two or three different system areas. What’s your point of view?
Jason Edwards
Yeah, it really depends on the owner and the hotel. Know, what are their goals? What kind of staffing do they have? Do they have a strong revenue team, strong operations team? Are they very lean? I tend to find hotels that are much more lean that all in one is more viable for them because it’s simpler, easier to deploy. Properties that have multiple outlets, golf, food and beverage, spa, hub and spoke tends to be better for them. So it really comes down to the property and what are the owners’ goals over the next twelve to twenty four months? What does their team look like? Do they feel that an all in one would be better for them in that situation or the hub and spoke manner so they can go pick best in class systems for each of the different things and slowly build their system landscape. So it varies. No hotel is the same. You can have two what look like identical properties, but there’s unique things that are going on at both of those properties that dictate different strategies and systems.
Sébastien Leitner
Okay, interesting. And then your discussion with owners, are they asking for AI? AI becoming a thing in their list of catalogs?
Jason Edwards
It seems to be a question everyone’s asking. What does your system do with AI?
Sébastien Leitner
Okay.
Jason Edwards
It seems like right now it’s more of everyone’s talking about AI, so I probably should ask about AI as well. In the end, when it comes to the decision process, I don’t think it’s playing a big factor into decisions on which systems they go with. AI can be very valuable for owners, and a lot of what owners want to understand is, What’s going on today and tomorrow and next week? How am I doing? AI can play a great role in that, in being able to take data, parse it out, and give insights to it. But I don’t think there’s owners or even hotel operators right now that think that I must have AI to move forward. It’s kind of a buzzword right now. And I could see potentially in five to ten years where a lot more AI out there involved in the systems, and it’s something I mentioned earlier, change is difficult for folks. This AI, new AI coming in is a change for a lot of individuals. So AI being implemented into the back end of systems, I I can see now, is very valuable, but do customers make a buying decision based on that? I don’t think so at this point right now.
Sébastien Leitner
Okay. And I guess, reversely, as technology providers, do we need to do a better job at explaining what the AI actually does, or will it not be received as critical from a hotelier’s perspective? What’s your take on that? When we think of revenue management systems, we’ve had AI models, machine learning for decades. This is not new. We just call it AI suddenly, right? Previously we may have called it machine learning, right? If you will. How receptive are hotel owners, operators to understanding the details of AIs? Because, you know, everyone knows ChatGPT nowadays, right? But not every PMS has a large language model included in their system and may not need it, let’s be honest. But most revenue management systems have some form of algorithm, you would hope so, these days.
Jason Edwards
Yeah. You’re right. The algorithms have been in place for a long time, and you’re finding nowadays there are new RMSs coming out and new systems that throw the dot ai at the end of the URL. But what does that dot ai really mean for that particular system? And that’s something that, as an owner or a buyer, you should be asking. So how does AI really play a role in your system? To understand it and being able to explain it. And there, there are systems out there that do truly use AI. And, but there’s, from a operating standpoint, you’re not really touching it. It’s all kind of behind the scenes. When owners ask about AI on particular system, vendors should be very open and honest about how they’re using it. What does it do to impact your operational flows or your revenue generation so that it can owners can make a better decision on how to move forward with a purchasing decision.
Sébastien Leitner
Yeah. I I agree, Jason. I agree. I I published recently something on Focusrite around that where I say we have to get rid of the word AI and replace it with what does it actually do? And that story is much more important than calling it AI. But anyway, what gets you excited about, I guess, the future of technology, or is there anything out there that you see happening when it comes to tech that you think is going to move the needle? I know I started with AI, so I don’t want to lead you as a witness. We could talk about anything, but is there a piece of technology or a solution out there that gets you excited when you think of hospitality?
Jason Edwards
Well, I see what you guys have developed in some other systems, they kind of have all the one with the channel connects directly to the OTAs versus the traditional central reservation systems and how they connect. It’s a very streamlined process to connect an OTA and the new model. I see in the next coming years that the CRS systems are going to have to adapt as well in the same manner and grow and be nimble for a consumer to be able to say, ‘Yeah, want to do that.’ When I look at what you guys offer and some other PMS providers offer as far as direct connects to those OTAs, I feel like they’re far superior and faster than legacy systems. So we’re going to start seeing, I think, in the legacy systems, some changes coming from that aspect there. Why I think one of the biggest gaps right now and advantages that the CRSs have over all in one PMS is the GDS connectivity And being able to control your message. There are companies out there that kind of white label get you to the the GDS, but you kind of lose control of who you are because they have their standards in place. So we’re gonna start seeing, I think, the UPS world with the all in one PMSs to be able to have better connections, and I think CRSs are gonna start adapting too to how, PMSs are now direct connecting to the OTAs. We can have an OTA up and live in a matter of a couple hours. With an all in one PMS versus a central reservation system, you’re looking at a couple weeks. It’s a big factor.
Sébastien Leitner
That’s a huge factor, and a couple of weeks can be a lot of revenue that is either generated or not generated, right, in that period of I have yet to hear about a hotel that goes live in a matter of hours in the GDS.
Jason Edwards
Yeah. GDS takes a while.
Sébastien Leitner
It takes a while.
Jason Edwards
It’s all because the GDS’s go live dates that have to get scheduled. They only do those certain days of the month, But the GDS, right now, getting your information together and into the GDS is much more time consuming, even with the central reservation systems, but their connections are stronger than other white label systems out there through channel connects.
Sébastien Leitner
You’re doing this work today, and I haven’t done this in, I’ve got to imagine myself, in twenty years that I’ve set up, or twenty five years that I’ve set up a GDS property. Are we still filling out spreadsheets to go live on a Yes.
Jason Edwards
There’s still some spreadsheets that are being filled out. Most of that is it’s because we’re we are trying to collect the information from our our customer so we can then put it into the CRS to Okay. Just so that piece of it, they are still working on a PMS CRS integration right now, and there’s a spreadsheet I had to fill out, and I had to grab some information from the PMS, and I had to grab information from the CRS and put it in a spreadsheet so the tech person can make the integration happen on the background. I have seen great strides in getting rid of those kind of processes over the years, but they’re still out there.
Sébastien Leitner
Thank you for entertaining my questions and making me feel, you know, again. In the race to agentic AI, right? Like, or sort of the agent, right? There’s a lot happening right now and everyone is talking about, launching their AI solution that will help you find and book your next stay, right? ChatGBT is introducing advertising. Everyone is expecting Google to launch something at some point. Booking dot com is talking about agents, Expedia. Will win the agent race, in your opinion?
Jason Edwards
From a provider perspective?
Sébastien Leitner
Or in general, like from a consumer perspective, like, you know, who is closest to actually, I guess, search and book accommodation using an AI agent? Because I haven’t seen it Yeah.
Jason Edwards
I haven’t seen it come through really yet at this point. But, you know, Google’s already got a great hold and grasp on the booking process Okay. Over the years. So I think they have an advantage over from making that particular piece happen. I think there’s still a lot about learning for ChatGPT to do to get there. Know, Google has their Gemini, so who’s going to get there first? And from a hotelier’s perspective, coming. We need to be prepared for it. And as you’re rolling out a new hotel, that’s something that needs to be talked about and looked at. And optimizing your hotel for search engine optimization, but also optimizing it for AI when you’re billing out your website so that as these first iterations ever come out, you’re being found on those. That’s just gonna be a huge competitive advantage for hotels and markets that have it versus hotels that don’t.
Sébastien Leitner
So that’s a, I think, really good point. Like, for all the AI hype AI hype or AI hype, it sounds weird as I’m saying it out loud, the basics are still true, which is around search engine optimization, around being discoverable. Is that fair? You need to be found as a property.
Jason Edwards
Correct. The chatbots out there, they’re looking for things. If you’re not in what they’re looking for, you’re not gonna be found. It’s just like search engine optimization when it first came out. If you didn’t have the right things in place, you were not being found kind of thing. So it’s thinking ahead at this point.
Sébastien Leitner
What is one piece of content hotel owners under invest in, in your opinion?
Jason Edwards
I think it’s photography, videos. Pictures sell hotels, words don’t. I really encourage our customers to take a look at, you know, what do you have? Customers want to know when they’re walking in the room, what are they gonna see? Do they have a bed? So what does that bed area look like? Is there going be a television? What does that area look like? Do you have a place to be able to sit down? Is there a place to work? What’s the bathroom like? You spend part of your life when you’re in a hotel room in the bathroom getting ready and preparing for the day. The customers want to know and understand what that looks like. The better you can lay out, help a customer visualize what they’re buying, the easier it is for them to buy. And if you’re a property that has views, you can’t forget that picture walking out the window. That’s a huge selling point for someone to be able to buy your base room and then seeing your next room with, oh, wow, there’s a view. That’s worth spending another twenty dollars or thirty dollars for. But if you don’t have that picture of the view, why wouldn’t they buy it?
Sébastien Leitner
Yeah, and in your mind it means professional photography, not walking around with an iPhone, what is it now, fifteen or sixteen?
Jason Edwards
Yeah, definitely. I think having professional photography is very key, it’s having attention to detail, you know, having the bed comforter all wrinkled up. The little details people notice if there’s a trash can in the picture with trash in it. So it’s making sure your rooms are properly staged and having, before the photographer comes in, having a shot list of exactly what you want. Because you might have three room types that have an identical bathroom. Well, you just need to take pictures of one bathroom to be able to accommodate the three room types, but you’re gonna have other pictures that you need for each of those room types. Understanding what what the need is and you are truly selling each one of your rooms and making sure that as you go up in in price and category of of room types, do you have the photography that shows the customer why they need to spend that extra money to buy that higher priced room type, rather than only selling your base room types and having to upgrade people to get full.
Sébastien Leitner
Very good, very good. So invest in media, invest in quality content.
Jason Edwards
Yep.
Sébastien Leitner
Before we wrap up our episode with a couple of best practices that sort of complement that, I want to do a quick rapid fire around, right? The way this works is I’m just going to sort of say something and you just answer with something that comes to mind. It’s supposed to be rapid fire. If you take more than two words, it’s perfectly fine. What’s an overrated hotel API or integration everyone talks about, but that is overrated in your opinion?
Jason Edwards
I think it’s really the ones that they’re not using.
Sébastien Leitner
Fastest way to break a deployment.
Jason Edwards
Rushing without fault.
Sébastien Leitner
One old school practice that needs to die.
Jason Edwards
People being busy thinking they’re making progress.
Sébastien Leitner
Okay. One thing that will disappear from a hotel room.
Jason Edwards
Telephones.
Sébastien Leitner
Okay. One metric you wish every general manager watched closely.
Jason Edwards
Net revenue by channel.
Sébastien Leitner
Net revenue by channel. And sorry, double clicking on that. How do you define net revenue?
Jason Edwards
So, you know, you have your OTAs and you have your margins. If you bring in forty thousand, you can usually take about twenty percent off of that for your net. It’s understanding your revenue is truly coming in and where the value is.
Sébastien Leitner
Okay, cool. You talked about, you know, the important piece of investing in into media as you onboard a new property or activate a new property or go independent, whichever it is. Is there any other best practice that you’ve come across over your years of experience that you’d say every hotel owner should do this when they onboard new technology or, you know, launch a new property?
Jason Edwards
They need to have a very strong marketing and sales plan in place, and plan on spending more than they think they should have. People need to know you’re there. And if you’re not spending the money to to let them know you’re there, you’re setting yourself up to fail.
Sébastien Leitner
A hotel owner may say, well, why do I need Booking and Expedia? Don’t they do all the advertising and marketing for me?
Jason Edwards
They do, but you’re you’re pulling in a lower lower value piece of business than if you market yourself.
Sébastien Leitner
Okay.
Jason Edwards
Become greater at book direct than you are at OTAs. Typically, as a new property launches, you do rely more heavily on the OTAs, but if you don’t have that marketing and sales plan in place to protect your rate and be firm on where you want to be in the future, you end up just eroding your ADR and having that spend at the beginning to get people booking direct and finding your hotel, so you can reduce your reliance on the OTAs as a much more profitable business down the road.
Sébastien Leitner
Jason, thank you so much for sharing your time, your expertise, your insights with us today. Really appreciate it. Can’t wait to catch up with you in person at an event that we will hopefully cross path at, and in the meantime, luck for your next deployment.
Jason Edwards
I appreciate it. It was great having a conversation with you today as well.
Sébastien Leitner
Alright. Thank you. Thank you for listening. If you like what you’re hearing, make sure you subscribe to avoid missing the next episode. It helps us produce better shows and get the most interesting guests. Thank you for your support.
