Kristen Vasan
Something I love about Hipcamp is that we believe that spending more time in nature will inspire people to take better care of it. We measure our success as a business in our the number of nights outside that we generate annually. It’s less about, you know, revenue. Obviously, those metrics are important to us as a business, but we’re always thinking about how many nights outside can we generate.
Sebastien Leitner
Welcome to the Turndown. This week, I have the pleasure of introducing you to Kristen Vazat. She is heading up, partnerships at Hipcamp. And she’s one of the guests on the program that really walks the talk. I’ve yet to meet somebody that is so passionate about the product, the service, and the lifestyle that her company delivers to travelers, nomads, to, discoverers, if you will, of fantastic experiences around the world. Kristin is a great example of that. And, I left the conversation thinking that I should pack my bags, better probably a backpack, leave my house, and go traveling, because there’s so much to discover.
Kristen, welcome to the turndown. It’s great to have you on the program.
Kristen Vasan
Thank you, Sebastian. Good to be here.
Sebastien Leitner
Absolutely. It is sunny in both of our locations. There is sunshine here. There’s sunshine there. Where are you dialing in from today?
Kristen Vasan
Today, I’m actually on the East Coast. I’m in Charlottesville, Virginia. But I typically am based out of Colorado, travel around quite a bit, though. We’re fully remote at Hipcamp, so I can take this call from pretty much anywhere I I’d like.
Sebastien Leitner
That’s excellent. That’s excellent. Very cool. I’d like to kick off The Turndown episode with my sort of standard introduction question, which is, Kristen, what is keeping you up at night these days?
Kristen Vasan
I would say that I have been losing a bit of sleep over the total solar eclipse coming up on April eight. I have yes. Wow. This is something that I even have a countdown clock on my phone tracking, and I can share a little bit more around why. But, you know, working in the outdoor hospitality industry, this is kind of like the, you know, Super Bowl of the century, you know, moment coming up for us. Everyone in outdoor hospitality is anchoring around this moment.
And not only is it a big deal for us in, you know, at work, but personally, I have been tracking this thing since I saw the last one in twenty seventeen, the last total eclipse. And so, my hotel, my flights, and everything are booked for this experience that I’m gonna be going to see in Mazatlan, Mexico. And, the airlines that I booked my trip with have, like, canceled or moved my flights multiple times, which just gives me major anxiety. Every morning I wake up and I’m waiting for the next update on why my flight’s been moved back or pushed around. So, so far, everything’s looking good for both me and for the community of Hipcampers and folks that we have going out to see this thing.
Sebastien Leitner
I must admit, I haven’t seen a that I can recall, a solar eclipse. So I’m I I’m digging this conversation because I wanna go around to Mexico.
Kristen Vasan
So definitely try to plan your trip around the the actual path of total darkness. In Hipcamp, we actually designed a map layer so that if you go to our platform and you search those dates, right, April 7th to 8th, the 8th is when it’s happening, You’ll be able to see where the path is and pick campsites along that path. So you’ll have some, contextual data there to help you plan your trip.
Sebastien Leitner
That’s fantastic. And it’s fair to say that. Right? A campsite connects you much more to what is happening outside than a hotel would ever do. Right? Like, this is not the same experience when you’re outdoors somewhere than if you’re in the city. Is that fair to say?
Kristen Vasan
Totally. I would say, like, you know, I could describe with as if it was yesterday what my experience in twenty seventeen was like where I went to Oregon, I went to the mountains above the tree line, camped with friends, and every single detail from the temperature of the air to the way the light was coming through from the sky to just the energy amongst everyone who was watching it together.
And what was so beautiful about it was the moment where the sun and the moon overlapped. We thought that we were pretty much remote and on our own in this kind of mountainous area that we had found. And we suddenly could hear people hooting and hollering from across this valley where we were watching the eclipse from. And it was just this feeling of collective humanity, like, all of us coming together to celebrate something that was so much bigger than us, and it was just an unforgettable experience. So I’m really excited to get to do this again and to do it in a totally different place with the ocean there.
Sebastien Leitner
Wow. I mean, I guess you described the perfect reasons why we travel, why we leave our houses to experience something that creates a sense of belonging in connection with an event that is happening around you, whether that’s a Super Bowl event or whether that’s a, you know, a whole solar eclipse. I’m curious how you ended up with Hipcamp. Right? You spoke about sort of the camping in twenty seventeen in Oregon above the tree line. Were you working at hip camp already, or was that basically something that a stepping spot, a stone towards your career at hip camp?
Kristen Vasan
Yeah. So I’m I’ve been with Hipcamp for the last couple of years, and I think just to kind of walk you back to how I got here, you know, I think I mentioned I’m originally from the northeast. I’ve been living in New York City for about ten years. I had been working in the tech industry, mainly travel tech, for a really long time, just super fast-paced. I mean, anyone who’s lived in New York knows what it’s like to be there.
And in January of 2020, I took a very spontaneous quick trip to Hawaii just after New Year’s. I thought I’d, you know, pop over there for a week and just hang out. I’d never been there before, and I spent a week hiking and diving and just driving around the big island and, you know, really enjoyed soaking up every minute I could outside. And when I returned to New York, I’ll never forget this feeling of being underground in a subway car and having this light bulb moment of, like, I need to get out of here finally. You know? I’ve been thinking about it and thinking about it for years, and it just so happened that that was right before, you know, March of 2020, which was, I think, just kind of perfect timing. It was almost like things were aligning and helping me realize, like, it was just time to leave this this really industrial place that I’ve been spending so much of my life.
So, fortunately for me, I have family in Colorado and was able to spend some time with them, during those initial months of COVID. And, it was through that time that I really started to get outside. I think I can count on one hand, including the Eclipse campout in 2017, how many times I’ve been camping, prior to twenty twenty. And as I think many people can attest, we had to find new ways to travel and to explore and to really just experience, you know, what it what it felt like to get out of the norm, you know, like, break your routine.
And so I started getting gear, and I bought a backpack. And I learned how to, you know, like, track through nature and set up a tent and, like, do all of the things that one does when they’re spending time outside. And I am pretty sure I tried to do the math, but for the last half of twenty twenty, I spent more days in a tent than I did in a bed.
Sebastien Leitner
So it it just kind of all manifested exactly, I think, looking back as it it was meant to. And, what I’m not mentioning is that in the summer during the summer of twenty twenty, you know, I was the director of travel for Foursquare. I’m sure you’re familiar with Foursquare.
Kristen Vasan
They’re a leading leader in the location tech space, and I was working on deals with Booking dot com and Kayak and Hilton and everyone in travel. And slowly throughout that summer, everything started to fall apart. Right? Like, you know, all of my contacts were no longer working at these companies or they’d been furloughed, and the writing was obviously on the wall for the travel vertical at my company as well.
And so I used the opportunity to take a break. And I’d been thinking about doing so for a while. I actually had been saving up with the intent to, like, travel around the world for a year and get to do a bunch of bucket list things with my life. And because of COVID, I was kind of forced to just stop and slow down and do what I could with the time that I suddenly had and and the budget that I had saved to travel. I was like, okay. How can I use this to my advantage?
And so I really slowed down, and I used that time to focus on my meditation practice, really think about how spending time in nature could help me, maybe just expand my look outlook on the world and, like, what I was really doing. And did I wanna go back to the city? Did I wanna stay in location tech? Or was there something else out there for me?
And so, you know, fast forward to a year from the time I had stopped working, and I started thinking about where I wanted to be. You know? And I looked at some amazing companies. I considered really staying in that location tech space. And one day, someone that, I formerly had worked with at ForceWare sent me the job rec for the Hipcamp role as global head of partnerships. And if you had sent that to me, Sebastian, in twenty twenty, I would have called you crazy. Like, what a camping company? You know what? I have no business in this space. Why on earth would I take on this type of a role?
But it was just kind of kismet, and you think about all of the, you know, things that lead us to make the decisions that we end up making in our lives. And for me, it was this perfect harmony of relationship building and management, understanding of tech, this cross section of, like, everything that I had worked so hard to create in my career, and then realizing that I could use that toward a mission and a vision with an organization that I just felt so values aligned with.
And so a funny aside is that during my interview process, I was about to go into a ten day silent meditation retreat. And I was so worried that hip camp was going to think I was this, like, woo woo, you know, got my head in the clouds kind of candidate, you know, having come from New York where you don’t take breaks and you don’t express vulnerability and, you know, I think the world really shifted from pre pandemic to post pandemic in the way that we think about like, just taking care of ourselves.
And I realized that was a value that I’d really cultivated during the time that I had taken for myself. And so when I came back to the interview process, I noticed that Hipcamp, you know, was just so excited to talk to me and to hear about how that time in silence went for me. And I actually wrote down tons of ideas about the role and what I thought I could bring to the company during that meditation retreat, and I sent it to my, at the time, you know, potential future boss. And he occasionally resends that list to me of, like, don’t forget, you know, what you were thinking about back then because this is still really important and relevant.
So, it it was a a really beautiful journey to get me to where I am, and I don’t think I would have explored this role or considered it with such, you know, like, so seriously had I not given myself time in nature and time to just take some space and, like, really think about what matters to me.
Sebastien Leitner
I need to double click on so many things that I wanna, you know, inquire or or learn from you about. When you say ten days silent, does that mean twenty four seven silent or yes. You’re nodding. Right? You’re
Kristen Vasan
So it yeah. Yeah. It, so the the the place where I went, and there’s different types of of silent meditation or dreams. There’s Zen Buddhism. This was, you know, a form of Buddhism that’s more a nondualistic, which we probably don’t wanna go down that rabbit hole of thinking through all the different types of meditations there are, but, you know, we were not allowed to make eye contact with anyone else in the retreat. You’re not allowed to speak. They do, in this case, allow for writing and journaling. But you’re not allowed to read anything that you’ve brought in. You know, there’s some very, like, standard material that they’ll provide you, poetry or excerpts from different teachings that they have, and, you know, cover during the time that you’re there.
But it’s very, very much like clockwork. Every day you’re in a routine. Those first two or three days are tough because you’re, I mean, you’re also disconnected. You’re not going back to your room and checking your phone or texting your family and saying, hi. Like, I’m thinking of you or send me something entertaining. It’s total disconnect, very off the grid. And everything’s provided for you, so meals, you know, water, all of those things.
But it’s after, I think, maybe three or four days, you’re like, okay. I can get used to this. And you do get used to being in complete silence and meditating for, you know, six or seven hours a day. There’s some light yoga at the place I went, and it’s just a really wonderful way for those who have the time to recalibrate and, you know, step back. And then you return back to civilization and realize, like, how much how cluttered your life is and what you’d like to maybe do more of or do less of.
Sebastien Leitner
We may go down a rabbit hole on meditation, so I wanna leave that aside for a second. I wanna talk about, you know, one of the themes that we talked earlier, why we travel. Right? Like, to experience, to to to disconnect, but also just just to feel that sense of community. As you think of the travelers that use your platform, right, before and after COVID, have the fundamentals changed in your opinion? Say more about fundamentals. What do you mean?
Kristen Vasan
The drivers that motivate them to discover to travel. Have these changed? Like, you know, the factors that motivate you to leave your house, to get on the plane, to get on the bus, whatever it is to discover something new. Has that changed before and after COVID?
Sebastien Leitner
One hundred percent.
Kristen Vasan
I mean, just the rate of people who started using outdoor travel as a way to explore the world, that, has increased by, you know, threefold, I think, since before the pandemic. There’s, every year, the KOA report that comes out, it talks about the number of people who are getting outside and those who are first time campers, that community has grown so significantly. You know, you have more and more couples retiring who are like, what are we gonna do now? Let’s buy an RV and get on the road and go check out all of those national parks we’ve been meaning to see. You know?
So I think you’re seeing a growing trend in just the overall number of people that realized during COVID, getting outside is an affordable, fun way to kind of reset, and something that we’ve really seen a lot of popularity around or excitement around is astronomical events. Right? So we’ve got this eclipse coming up, but now you’ve got also, like, the Perseids meteor shower and northern lights and harvest moons. And people love engaging with that type of content, and if we can bring it to them and say, you know, this is happening or get outside for the super bloom, get outside for, you know, any number of natural events that are happening.
I think there’s also an urgency that people have to see the world the way it is now because we know how quickly it’s changing and how limited our ability to enjoy certain parts of nature are going to be as the landscape changes, as climate change starts to impact, our natural environment. So we’ve definitely seen an influx of people spending more time in nature.
And, you know, something I love about Hipcamp is that we just we believe that spending more time in nature will inspire people to take better care of it. And so the more we can get people outside, the better job they’ll do at protecting their natural habitat. And it’s a concept called biophilia that was coined by, EO Wilson. But Yeah. We measure our success as a business in our the number of nights outside that we generate annually. It’s less about, you know, revenue and less about, you know obviously, those metrics are important to us as a business. But when we talk about success as a team, we’re always thinking about how many nights outside can we generate.
Sebastien Leitner
That’s interesting. When we talk about sustainable travel, right, we often have challenges around creating a currency that allows travelers to make decisions. Right? Like in airlines, we’re used to see carbon emissions, right? As a proxy of, you know, this is my seat, this is my fare class, this is the type of plane, this is the distance I’m traveling. Hence, my footprint is this amount of tons in carbon emission. When you think of Hipcamp or when you think of hospitality as a whole, right, is there an equivalent currency at this point in time? Or what’s your opinion?
Kristen Vasan
We don’t have anything that would equate to, like, offsetting a carbon footprint outside point of Yeah. There’s there’s so many benefits to or, like, we believe that the downstream benefits of one person just getting outside and appreciating what’s around them, and upholding values like leave no trace, you know, leaving it better, making sure that people are not just showing up to a campsite and throwing a bunch of garbage behind and, you know, piecing out, but really thinking about how can you leave this place better, and how does that that ethos also influence the way that you live your life after you’ve gone camping or after you’ve spent time outside?
What comes to mind for me is that, you know, we have the majority of our community, I’d say, falls into the, like, gen z millennial cohort. And that group of people cares so much about where their dollars are are going. Right? I want to spend my budget toward travel with organizations and with causes that I know are in somehow contributing to the environment or, having a positive impact on causes that I care about, like protecting biodiversity and fighting climate change. And so I do think that we’ve raised awareness amongst the folks who do come to Hipcamp around how the stance that we take in making sure we’re leaving the world better and that we wanna partner with organizations who follow a similar, you know, beat to to that drum.
So you’ll see, I think, more more and more people taking note of who the good players in this space are and choosing to spend, you know, travel budgets with those types of of groups. You know, last thing I’ll say on this is that when I lived in in New York, I would walk down the street and see litter all the time, and I never thought to bend down and pick it up and throw it away. Whereas here, because I’ve spent so much time in nature, I don’t even hesitate if I’m on a trail hike or walking around a neighborhood. If I see something out of place, I pick it up and I get get rid of it and make sure that it’s recycled or removed from that that spot. And I think you see more people doing that, at least we do within our community, who we’ve encouraged to spend that time outdoors.
Sebastien Leitner
True. So, you mentioned your community of Gen z and and, millennials being sort of your target audience and the nights spent outside. How many trips does a typical Hipcamp customer take, and how many nights do they spend outside? I’m curious.
Kristen Vasan
So I’d say that the average Hipcamper probably spends, like, takes maybe four to five camp trips annually. And I think what’s what’s important though to note on that is they’re not just camping with Hipcamp. They’re camping with Hipcamp, but they’re also camping at a national park. So they’re finding multiple ways to get outside. So almost think of Hipcamp as, like, an ingredient in the outdoor adventure toolkit that, that we tend to see, and we would we would call that individual a a frequent camper.
Sebastien Leitner
Interesting. You mentioned your bucket list that you had back, you know, before COVID and that you sort of put aside at least, you know, for some time. I’m curious what is left on that bucket list now today.
Kristen Vasan
It’s still very long. I I feel like, I mean, you goes to a place and you talk to a handful of people who have been to so many other places that end up making your bucket list even longer. Very nice.
You know, I think something I didn’t mention during my break is that I, I spent a meaningful amount of time in Oaxaca, Mexico. And so I became part of the community in in Oaxaca City. And, prior to that, you know, I was like, okay. I’m gonna spend a month in India, and I’m gonna spend some time in, you know, Chiang Mai, Thailand, and I wanna go diving in Indonesia. And it was just a lot of, places that I’d still love to go and spend time in.
But I think what I realized is what so many people were probably craving during COVID was community. And I did not realize how important that was to me until I found it in Oaxaca. So if you had asked me before COVID where where will you go with this trip that you’re gonna take, I would have skipped Mexico bunch of times. I’ve been there, done that. Now I’m gonna start in maybe Columbia or, you know, Chile.
But what happened is Mexico was one of the only places we could really spend time during those months when where we weren’t really able to leave, you know, leave the country. And getting to have that access to my community there was just, like, such a gift. I was able to really sit down and cultivate a lot of tools and, you know, habits and things that I don’t think I would have had the ability to do if I was on the go, you know, where you’re just, like, being a tourist and traveling and adventuring. This gave me time to slow down and think about, like, what are habits that I wanna cultivate while I’ve got this time? You know? Like, how might I return to work in a way that lets me live a better, more fulfilling life? Like, what are little things I can do?
And so I spent a lot of time during that time off thinking through, like, how can I design a life that I can feel really good coming back to whether I’m working or not or, you know, no matter where I might be traveling to next?
Sebastien Leitner
Before we wrap up, I’m very curious about you know, you mentioned you bought a backpack. You organized yourselves. What are some of the essentials you would not leave your house without that you’re putting in your backpack?
Kristen Vasan
Good question. A headlamp, bug spray, sunblock, trail mix, toilet paper, hand sanitizer. Okay. Garbage bags, just thinking through my camping my backpacking list. Obviously, some sort of water source or water filter. You know, make sure you’re you’re packing some really good snacks. I never get on the trail without Swedish fish and, you know, mixed nuts.
Sebastien Leitner
Perfect. You’ve got me thinking too because I’m planning a trip to the country of Georgia this summer where I’ll be taking, about a week to cruise through the Caucasus Mountains with a couple of friends. And so we’re having this conversation of, like, what do we need to make sure we include on that packing list? So I’ll have more to report back to you once we we wrap that up. Kristen, you made me wanna go camping. So I don’t know if that’s so that was one objective of your, I love the great outdoors. I’m usually, you know, skiing every weekend, hiking with my dog. If this podcast has done anything, it’s made me, you know, put my backpack together. So thank you very much for joining the program today, and, look forward seeing you somewhere on the trail.
Kristen Vasan
Alright, Sebastian. Thank you so much, and don’t forget to check out the eclipse path if you wanna get outside. It’s it’s calling to you. I can I can feel it?
Sebastien Leitner
Yeah. Clearly. Clearly. Thank you for listening to The Turndown. Don’t forget to subscribe and tune in next week as we discover new exciting guests.
